How much power is enough?

[CigarPundit]

"How much power is enough?"

I don't know, I have never said; Wow, that's enough HP for me...no more please.

Lol, neither have I.

 

[goblues38]

Replaceable in what way? You just swap out your dead on for a charged one? So how do you swap a battery that weighs a few hundred pounds by yourself? Where do you store the dead one? Assuming it's coming out the bottom via some type of mechanized setup, how does that work out in the winter when the entire undercarriage is covered in rock hard frozen slush? How much is that extra battery going to cost? Just a little starting battery is close to $200 now.

There is 0% chance that EVs will represent 12% of car sale in 3 years. Moore's law (which is NOT a law) applies to computers, not electric motors and batteries.

Exactly that. You pull into an EV service station, they swap out the battery module and send you on your way. a 5 minute pit stop.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-faster-cheaper-better-way-to-charge-electric-vehicles/

It is just an idea right now, but in 10 years who know.

electric cars are so computer heavy, Moore's law does apply to it.

 

[EricM]

I'm sure the batteries will all be interchangeable and easily swap from a Nissan Leaf to a GM Sierra, to a... yeah, that's not happening- ever. Who is giving up their brand new battery pack in exchange for a used one, even if it did fit?

Moore's "law" does not apply to electric motors and batteries, no matter how many computers are in the car. Are you actually serious about that or are you trolling here? Electric motors are so efficient already- there's just not much there to improve. It's not like they are using some 1950s brushed motors. They are using the best of the best already. Improvements in range and performance are 95% going to be about the battery tech. Energy density is absolutely **** poor in even the best batteries compared to gasoline, just like it was 10 years ago. The "next big thing" in batteries is "just around the corner" though, just like it was 10 years ago.

 

[TXRaptor]

Back to the original question, I think adding a 93 octane tune is the best HP-bang for your buck on our trucks. For $600-700 you can greatly improve the throttle response, acceleration and everyday drivability, even with the much heavier 37s. Unless you are totally paranoid about a warranty claim being denied, everyone should tune their truck. (I did mine as soon as I could with less than 1500 miles on my truck and I do not regret it almost 18 months later...)

The rest of the performance mods you read about on this forum are for sound reasons or other "perceived" benefits. None of them come close to the $ per HP gains of a proper tune.

 

[pbtjrlmrt]

So...18mpg 800HP seems to be the upper end and 93 tune on existing platform seems to be the consensus? I agree with both personally the 800hp would be for pure bragging rights and the tune...which I have is for fun on and off road. I still really like the setup as is and have never felt like I needed more. Wanting more for the pure thrill of course but realistically I think they've hit the sweet spot for these trucks. The discussion turned toward electric and having done so I'll point out that at that point it will be a completely different vehicle and the HP/TQ numbers will be crazy. There are 5 viable trucks with the Rivian being the most likely to succeed at this point and it puts up some amazing numbers but it just doesn't have a truck vibe for some reason....in this case it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...but is it really a duck? I think we'll have to go through quite a transition before "truck" guys will be willing to go all in on electric

 

[smurfslayer]

I'm sure the batteries will all be interchangeable and easily swap from a Nissan Leaf to a GM Sierra, to a... yeah, that's not happening- ever. Who is giving up their brand new battery pack in exchange for a used one, even if it did fit?

Moore's "law" does not apply to electric motors and batteries, no matter how many computers are in the car. Are you actually serious about that or are you trolling here? Electric motors are so efficient already- there's just not much there to improve. It's not like they are using some 1950s brushed motors. They are using the best of the best already. Improvements in range and performance are 95% going to be about the battery tech. Energy density is absolutely **** poor in even the best batteries compared to gasoline, just like it was 10 years ago. The "next big thing" in batteries is "just around the corner" though, just like it was 10 years ago.

Not viable.

the idea of replaceable batteries or ‘cells’ (?) has to be man portable to be achievable, and woman portable to get a green light for the purchase in the first place. On the bike each cell was about 18”x12”x4” (guessing from memory here) I think the bike had 3 or 4 cells that were all hot swappable. For that to be viable on a car, it would take some fantasy, but I can’t see a way to speed up the charging for a vehicle that needs 3-500 miles of range in the time you can fill up a fuel tank.

We aren’t going to sit around charge stations for 30 minutes when we can fill up with gas in 10 minutes.

 

[CigarPundit]

Yep. That's the issue. I suppose with technology advances and sufficient economic need (which does not currently exist but could be politically mandated--unlikely in the foreseeable future), the infrastructure for hot battery swaps could be built. But it is economically insane. I think the much more likely scenario is improvements in MPG through hybrid technology. But alas, being a near-codger, I remain a steadfast petrol head.

 

[GCATX]

Not viable.

the idea of replaceable batteries or ‘cells’ (?) has to be man portable to be achievable, and woman portable to get a green light for the purchase in the first place. On the bike each cell was about 18”x12”x4” (guessing from memory here) I think the bike had 3 or 4 cells that were all hot swappable. For that to be viable on a car, it would take some fantasy, but I can’t see a way to speed up the charging for a vehicle that needs 3-500 miles of range in the time you can fill up a fuel tank.

We aren’t going to sit around charge stations for 30 minutes when we can fill up with gas in 10 minutes.

Not only that, but imagine all the folks sitting on the side of the road waiting on a tow because the ran out of charge. Take all the idiots you see walking down the road with a red gas can in their hand, back to their car, and multiply it times every woman you've seen putting on makeup while driving.

 

[smurfslayer]

About the only way I see this with current battery tech is running a pair of reserve batteries that will get you to civilization in a reasonably suburban area. Pretty much any Ducati superbike rider, Harley Sporster rider and a few other specimens live with a 100 mile fuel range, so an electric or electric assist with a shorter range shouldn’t be such a big deal if it has a reserve capacity like the bikes do.

Electric assist would give decent power numbers, and should be at least reasonably usable. I guess we’ll see with the current Navi. One thing I hope to see more of is engine power, even if it’s augmented with separate electric drive. One thing I hope to see less of is electronic intrusion into the application of that power because there’s already too many electro-nannies on board.

 

[Vintabu]

Except for those who would trade in all the improvements of a Gen2 for the sound of the Gen 1 I'm curious how much is enough. How much HP/Torque is enough? I drank the kool-aide and upgraded my 2019 with a stage one kit including a 5star tune. Recently I removed the tune as the power/fuel mileage trade off wasn't worth it for DD. I'll use the tune for off road and sport mode is plenty for DD.


View attachment 130541

As the potential Gen 3 is contemplated and the TRX potential 700HP release gets nearer I find myself asking how much is enough. I've had mine to the dunes and in the mountains of Oregon and have never wanted for more power. Yes I'd like better sound but that's my inner 15 year old talking. The Gen 2 is so dialed in that it's hard to imagine more power/torque being useful. So how about you what is the right number? If it's more then why stop at 700...why not 1000 or 1500? At some point isn't it enough? For me I think the truck is perfect as is....keep in mind I'm only talking about HP and Torque numbers....Lots of case to be made for incremental suspension and interior updates but the question of HP/Torque seems to be a unicorn for people. Don't get me wrong...I sort of think there's no such thing as too much power but in reality there actually is...especially if you consider usable power and the fuel mileage tradeoff...I know we don't care a lot about fuel mileage but what about 5 MPG or 4 MPG or 6mpg ALL the time? is it worth it? What's your perfect realistic number for...MPG/HP/TQ?

Had you completed the Raptor Assault course you would know that these trucks do not need any additional power.

People would require the sound of a V8 over the refined gen2 raptor and all of its advancements are just silly