Houston we have a problem! (the bent frame thread)

[SOCOMech]

I'm starting to lean towards the combination of the shocks fading and extra weight in the vehicle......and still maybe some one-upmanship

 

[Droid]

Very curious to know more about what happened here. Is there any pattern whatsoever to the failures, I'd really be curious to know some of the following:

• How many trucks went, how many were damaged?
• Of the trucks that were damaged, were there variations in the degree of damage or in the failure itself?
• How were the damaged trucks configured? Deavers? Perch setting? Load (passengers and items, center of mass of load?) Other suspension modifications? Tire brand/model, size and weight (and wheel size/weight)?
• Behavior of drivers of damaged vs. non-damaged trucks: did more aggressive driving make a significant difference?
• Crew cabs vs. extended cabs? Crew cabs have a greater moment of inertia, i.e., there should be more load through this point. The crew CAB structure (not frame structure) is more rigid, but the failure point is aft of the cab, correct? The crews also have higher rear spring rates.
• Were the trucks behaving differently later in the run, i.e., was the suspension becoming firmer/softer?

I'm the farthest thing from a metallurgist, but my understanding of steel (vs. aluminum) is that its ability to retain its shape is NOT effected by cumulative loading with loads less than its permanent bending value. I'm using the wrong terms here to describe this attribute of steel, there's a much cleaner/scientific way of saying it. What I'm indicating here though is that a SINGLE EVENT load was placed on the frame to cause it to bend, at least initially. After that additional lesser loads may have exaggerated the problem, but it requires a single event to initiate the bend.

If this happened a year and a half ago, I'd be a lot less surprised. But at this point these are the first Raptors I've heard of that have taken such damage from anything but a single, notable, obvious high-impact event. Ford beat the shit out of these things in testing, as have hundreds of other people on fairly long duration runs. Did the Baja trucks receive any significant frame modifications?

This looks a hell of a lot more severe:


And as an aside, what caused the front suspension failure on one truck? Was that a specific severe impact or did symptoms develop during the drive before it came apart?

 

[debate]

Modulus of Elasticity (Young's Modulus)

my understanding of steel (vs. aluminum) is that its ability to retain its shape is NOT effected by cumulative loading with loads less than its permanent bending value. I'm using the wrong terms here to describe this attribute of steel, there's a much cleaner/scientific way of saying it.

"When a metal is subjected to load, there is an initial range of loading in which no permanent deformation of the specimen occurs; i.e., if the load is removed at any value within this range, the specimen will return completely to it's original dimensions. ... Generally, yield strength is based on a 0.2 percent permanent set."
-The Making Shaping and Treating of Steel, UNITED STATES STEEL

 

[RPG]

Here is another thought I just had. I know there are a few guys who are talking about getting this fixed under warranty. I am not 100% sure if I'm right about about this or not, but if Ford fixes this under warranty, isn't there is a dam good change that will show up down the road on a CarFax report as frame damage? And if so, resale of your truck will go straight to shit. I would think it would be best just too handle this at the offroad shop level with boxing the rear, and not a dealer level who reports this kind of thing.

I could be way off, but I would hate to see some of you guys end up going to sell the truck down the road and scrambling over come a frame damage report.

 

[Raptizzle]

Here is another thought I just had. I know there are a few guys who are talking about getting this fixed under warranty. I am not 100% sure if I'm right about about this or not, but if Ford fixes this under warranty, isn't there is a dam good change that will show up down the road on a CarFax report as frame damage? And if so, resale of your truck will go straight to shit. I would think it would be best just too handle this at the offroad shop level with boxing the rear, and not a dealer level who reports this kind of thing.

I could be way off, but I would hate to see some of you guys end up going to sell the truck down the road and scrambling over come a frame damage report.

That's an outstanding point!!

 

[RPG]

That's an outstanding point!!

I know, I was on the crapper where I do all my best thinking

 

[bstoner59]

They should just get it fixed...what fun is off-roading if you never have to fork out dough to fix crap??

 

[BIRDMAN]

it seems like it would be pretty easy to fab up a brace to attach the bump stops to or even just weld some reinforcements to that section. had to be a pretty violent jolt to bend the frame IMO

 

[Highroller]

Very curious to know more about what happened here. Is there any pattern whatsoever to the failures, I'd really be curious to know some of the following:

• How many trucks went, how many were damaged?
• Of the trucks that were damaged, were there variations in the degree of damage or in the failure itself?
• How were the damaged trucks configured? Deavers? Perch setting? Load (passengers and items, center of mass of load?) Other suspension modifications? Tire brand/model, size and weight (and wheel size/weight)?
• Behavior of drivers of damaged vs. non-damaged trucks: did more aggressive driving make a significant difference?
• Crew cabs vs. extended cabs? Crew cabs have a greater moment of inertia, i.e., there should be more load through this point. The crew CAB structure (not frame structure) is more rigid, but the failure point is aft of the cab, correct? The crews also have higher rear spring rates.
• Were the trucks behaving differently later in the run, i.e., was the suspension becoming firmer/softer?

I'm the farthest thing from a metallurgist, but my understanding of steel (vs. aluminum) is that its ability to retain its shape is NOT effected by cumulative loading with loads less than its permanent bending value. I'm using the wrong terms here to describe this attribute of steel, there's a much cleaner/scientific way of saying it. What I'm indicating here though is that a SINGLE EVENT load was placed on the frame to cause it to bend, at least initially. After that additional lesser loads may have exaggerated the problem, but it requires a single event to initiate the bend.

If this happened a year and a half ago, I'd be a lot less surprised. But at this point these are the first Raptors I've heard of that have taken such damage from anything but a single, notable, obvious high-impact event. Ford beat the shit out of these things in testing, as have hundreds of other people on fairly long duration runs. Did the Baja trucks receive any significant frame modifications?

This looks a hell of a lot more severe:


And as an aside, what caused the front suspension failure on one truck? Was that a specific severe impact or did symptoms develop during the drive before it came apart?

I'm with Droid on this issue, need additional info.

Out of the 14 trucks on the run, I understand 10 of them have bent frames, I have two questions.

1. Did the organizer of the run, end up with a bent frame (Outlaw Raptor) 2. The 4 that didn't have frame issues, what did they do different?

I'm not pointing any fingers, I just trying to shed some light on the issue and possibly pin point the issues that caused the bent frame.

 

[Droid]

A few more thoughts....

Someone needs to get SVT on the phone about this incident. Based on the description of what happened, Ford is on the hook to make people whole here. The trucks were being used as intended. There's an owners manual supplement that explains how to do it, and a tremendous amount of marketing has been done to show that these trucks are designed to handle this treatment.

F-150 SVT Raptor features standard front internal triple bypass FOX Racing Shox that provide position-sensitive damping, delivering traction, stability and comfort.
Disclosures
Closed course. Professional Driver. Obey all laws. Respect the environment. Know your vehicle, the course and the required equipment before high-speed off-roading.

Note how it doesn't say "do not attempt". It says "do these things before you do this."

Given that it was 10/14 trucks, and assuming the data provided about this event is accurate, I can't imagine Ford/SVT giving anyone grief about replacing/repairing the damaged trucks (including trucks out of warranty). I've heard the word "litigation" mentioned but I'd be severely disappointed in Ford if it came to that. If these trucks failed in the manner described, Ford really should have your back. They're fools if they don't, the damage to their reputation will dramatically exceed the $500,000 it'd cost to replace these trucks. I wouldn't try and deal with 10 different dealers to repair it...deal with Ford/SVT itself as a group.

Probably the best way to start is calling 1-800-FORD-SVT.