Help Me Trouble Shoot: Cupped Tires and Front End Rattle

[smurfslayer]

How many miles on the tires?

I just checked Lucille. In addition to the front tires having measurably more wear, less tread depth, it’s been 6500 miles since last service, I notice some of the every other tread block wear. I’m at about 38k miles, oe tires. I’m not what people would call a ‘gentle’ driver, I get about 95% street miles so far, 5% off road (but I’m working on that diligently to change those numbers).

I didn’t get a chance to put the calipers on the tires but I do know there’s a pretty good difference in tread depth front to back and I back stopped it against the still unused spare. We can get more sciencey if needed but I definitely see some of it too. Now, it’s been... probably 15 maybe as much as 20k since last alignment.

I have no wandering, pulling, vibrations, unusual drive conditions - none of that. No squealing of the tires around turns, or tell tale signs something might be up.

Now, I didn’t measure my tread depth very diligently until recently and I confirm my center is wearing faster than outside. For a lot of the 38k miles, I was running 38F, 37 minimum and about 2-3 less in the rear, rotating at service intervals. I think there’s probably a combination of things going on here. Alignment starts out good, loses some tread and gradually goes a little out, tires wear faster up front due to weight bias an load, and I think we probably just need to rotate diligently on schedule. FWIW, I’m a sport biker, and pretty diligent about tire pressure - using my gauge, not the truck’s.

Scalloped wear works for me. For that matter, other terms would too, I’ve just heard this referred to as feathering previously; right or wrong.

 

[GCATX]

OP, I would ask the dealer for the alignment printout.

As for the rattle, I would check the sway bar bushings. Easy way is to have someone stand on/in the front bumper opening and jump up and down (the fatter the better), while you're underneath looking at the bushings for any play whatsoever, or anything else with play for that matter.

If all that checks out, I would suspect a bad shock. They can do some weird stuff to tires.

 

[Raptoe13]

I had the same issue with 2 new sets of BFGs on my Gen 1. Correct rotations every 5k miles and the 1st set still wore on the insides like you describe. Replaced at about 30k. Alignment and a new set of BFGs, rotated every 5k and wore on the insides again prematurely. Another alignment, 5k rotations and now 25k into a set of Cooper AT3s and they are wearing great. FWIW, I also recently bought a used Gen2 with 30k miles and the stock front BFGs were absolute toast from inside wear. From the looks of it, I doubt the PO rotated the tires more than twice in that 30k. I think there's just something about the BFGs that the Raptors don't like.

 

[DeerHunter44]

I have Hankook AT2 on mine and they are doing the same thing. Every other lug on front inside tires. Just installed some rebuilt factory shocks at 53k miles but I’m not sure what causes the issue. My tires are at about 50% but not sure how many miles the PO had on them when I got the truck. Everything else is perfect. No wobbles, vibration, noises or pulling. Truck rides and handles perfectly. I plan on rotating every 3k when I put on a new set of tires to try and avoid this in the future. Not a huge fan of the Hankooks so I’ll just run them for a few more months and then get something different.


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[Rustler]

Follow-up: So the dealer redeemed itself from the terrible initial visit and response, and (after some serious noise on my part) was extremely responsive, and has been very helpful. So that's good. Here's where I am with this:

Cupped Tires: The alignment was spot on (I have the printout). No visible damage to suspension components. The shocks showed no looseness or excessive lash (but were noisy, see below). The wheels were all very slightly off balance and corrected, but at less than 1 oz per wheel, not a likely culprit. In the absence of any issue, Ford's final position on this as articulated to the dealer through their "Techline" system is "characteristic wear pattern due to demonstrated similar vehicles with similar to same wear." Basically, we're seeing this on a lot of Raptors. I think that response is BS, but the issue is not significant enough for me to continue to spend more time on. The dealer has agreed to a reasonable deal when I do eventually replace the tires, and moving forward I'm going to rotate (including a cross rotation) every 5k miles. I think that if Ford is aware that this is a pervasive issue they have a duty at the very least warn customers and recommend a much shorter rotation interval, and I do not think it is unreasonable to suggest that Ford really should be engineering some solution (different OE tire, suspension geometry, whatever it takes). I'd be interested to see a poll on just how pervasive this moderate cupping issue really is. Maybe someday I'll get that going.

Front end clunk: chassis ears zeroed in on the front shocks. There was no apparent failure point, but Ford acknowledged that even functioning shocks are known to them to make this noise, and they were replaced under warranty. So far so good, front end has been quiet. Hope it stays that way!

In sum: I'm moving on with the understanding that these trucks can cup the front tires, and I'm going to drastically reduce my rotation interval. The front end clunk appears to have been noisy shocks, which were replaced.

 

[dsiggi]

Follow-up: So the dealer redeemed itself from the terrible initial visit and response, and (after some serious noise on my part) was extremely responsive, and has been very helpful. So that's good. Here's where I am with this:

Cupped Tires: The alignment was spot on (I have the printout). No visible damage to suspension components. The shocks showed no looseness or excessive lash (but were noisy, see below). The wheels were all very slightly off balance and corrected, but at less than 1 oz per wheel, not a likely culprit. In the absence of any issue, Ford's final position on this as articulated to the dealer through their "Techline" system is "characteristic wear pattern due to demonstrated similar vehicles with similar to same wear." Basically, we're seeing this on a lot of Raptors. I think that response is BS, but the issue is not significant enough for me to continue to spend more time on. The dealer has agreed to a reasonable deal when I do eventually replace the tires, and moving forward I'm going to rotate (including a cross rotation) every 5k miles. I think that if Ford is aware that this is a pervasive issue they have a duty at the very least warn customers and recommend a much shorter rotation interval, and I do not think it is unreasonable to suggest that Ford really should be engineering some solution (different OE tire, suspension geometry, whatever it takes). I'd be interested to see a poll on just how pervasive this moderate cupping issue really is. Maybe someday I'll get that going.

Front end clunk: chassis ears zeroed in on the front shocks. There was no apparent failure point, but Ford acknowledged that even functioning shocks are known to them to make this noise, and they were replaced under warranty. So far so good, front end has been quiet. Hope it stays that way!

In sum: I'm moving on with the understanding that these trucks can cup the front tires, and I'm going to drastically reduce my rotation interval. The front end clunk appears to have been noisy shocks, which were replaced.

Have had this same issue with the KO2. Alignment spot on, proper rotation, 2 sets of tires, first set was warrantied by Michelin for 40 percent off new set as thats the amount of tread that was left. I think this is common among all these trucks sadly. I like the KO2, I'm not sure if its a truck problem or a tire problem or a combination of both but best I can tell even with new shocks/alignment/ etc every set of these will do the same thing. I'm not against only running them halfway, but with what tires cost thats really a terrible deal. Dealer says they see this on all their raptors, I have some good friends inside at FP as well and it also seems to be common there, but what I have not got from them is whats the cause, is this just a by product of design they are willing to accept? I'm unsure. I feel bad bugging Michelin after every set of tires, but if they discount a new set everytime, I'd be willing to keep running the KO2. I really do like the load Range C vs a Load Range E in something like a General Grabber and also prefer the look. I may call Michelin Monday, explain what I know over 2 sets and see what their take is.

 

[TwizzleStix]

Yes, the K02s wear with the cupped blocks on the insides. The truck specs about -1 deg camber which really helps performance driving on all surfaces. I put ~60k miles on the original tires and they did make some noise and a little vibration near the end. That’s just how it works on the Gen2 Raptor.

You can get the tires to wear flat by zeroing out the negative camber or even adding a small amount of positive, but you’ll destroy the overall handling of the truck at speed.

Of course, those folks lifting the truck and running bigger tires kill the sweet handling suspension as well, so likely most won’t care.

 

[dsiggi]

Yes, the K02s wear with the cupped blocks on the insides. The truck specs about -1 deg camber which really helps performance driving on all surfaces. I put ~60k miles on the original tires and they did make some noise and a little vibration near the end. That’s just how it works on the Gen2 Raptor.

You can get the tires to wear flat by zeroing out the negative camber or even adding a small amount of positive, but you’ll destroy the overall handling of the truck at speed.

Of course, those folks lifting the truck and running bigger tires kill the sweet handling suspension as well, so likely most won’t care.

I just checked my last printout looks like .50 negative camber, spec is +.25to -1.25

 

[Keith88]

So this is just my 2 cents here.... have owned the following rigs with KO2 tires....

22 Raptor 37pp
18 Rubicon JKU
15 F-150 (bought ko2 when they came out)

All the Ko2 tires ive ever had in my life have been the worst light truck tires ever. They all wear out fast and unevenly. I rotate and inflate as I should.... they all suck.

As far as the rattling goes.... who knows... I would have to have the truck to get it figured out. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[tahoeacr]

I have that rattle. Dealer changed the end link on one side of the sway bar. Helped for awhile. Now with the crappy Winter roads it's really getting bad. Going to disconnect my sway bar and see if it goes away. Hope it isn't the shocks.