GEN 1 GEN2 Rear Shocks on GEN1 worth it?

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votive

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I've found lots of threads on doing this mod but hardly any saying if it's worth it or not.

My stock shocks are due for a rebuild and I'm looking at doing the KHC Rear Shock Conversion Bracket mod. Keeping the fronts stock. Is it worth the extra ~$400 to run the GEN2 rears over the GEN1? That's the cost of the bracket and difference in Rock Auto shock prices.
 

Jhollowell

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To me i don't think gen 2 shocks are worth the hassle to put on a Gen 1. I forget the travel increase but i thought it was only 1-2 inches so for that cost/hassle its not worth it to me. Also, 3.0 doesn't mean it's better than 2.5. Yes its bigger but the shaft is the same diameter and i'd be willing to bet the piston/valve is the same diameter so i don't see much benefit there either. People will also say 3.0 will stay cooler but i've seen no evidence or numbers supporting this. Yes, 3.0 diameter has more surface area to act as a heat sink but there's also more fluid to heat up so i think overall temp will be the same, but the 3.0 may take longer to heat up. I'd recommend a tuned set of 2.5 s over 3.0 but thats just my opinion and like everyone else, i have no data to support my claims
 
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Gumby

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People will also say 3.0 will stay cooler but i've seen no evidence or numbers supporting this
I agree with @Jhollowell on everything he said except this. I would think they would stay cooler. but unless you are full off road. so what if there a few deg cooler. they might make 1200 miles full off road instead of a 1000 so Now they might make it a little longer between rebuilds. I am in total agreement I don't think it is worth the switch. 400 will buy an extra rebuild. IMO
 

FishFreak

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To me i don't think gen 2 shocks are worth the hassle to put on a Gen 1. I forget the travel increase but i thought it was only 1-2 inches so for that cost/hassle its not worth it to me. Also, 3.0 doesn't mean it's better than 2.5. Yes its bigger but the shaft is the same diameter and i'd be willing to bet the piston/valve is the same diameter so i don't see much benefit there either. People will also say 3.0 will stay cooler but i've seen no evidence or numbers supporting this. Yes, 3.0 diameter has more surface area to act as a heat sink but there's also more fluid to heat up so i think overall temp will be the same, but the 3.0 may take longer to heat up. I'd recommend a tuned set of 2.5 s over 3.0 but thats just my opinion and like everyone else, i have no data to support my claims
You actually do not gain any suspension travel with the Fox 3.0. Hopefully your up-down travel limitations are determined by your spring setup and bump stop position. If you're bottoming or topping out on your shock internals there's something wrong with your setup and you're hammering your shock piston in ways it's not supposed to be hammered.

That being said, the Gen 2 3.0 Fox shock is a little longer than the Gen 1, so, if you don't have correct bump stops to stop upward travel, you could more easily bottom that Gen 2 Fox out on it's internals. Can it happen? I don't know, I've not articulated my whole rear suspension both ways without shocks to measure the leaf spring and bump stop travel limitations and done the math. Math is hard. I'm counting on Ford has already done it for us. If you plan on using a Deaver +3 spring that raises the rear an inch or two (depending on your shackle choice), then the extra 3.0 shock length bolted in the stock gen 1 mounts may be the perfect match.

So a shock's job is to slow the movement of the unsprung suspension mass and convert that enertia into heat, so a bigger 3" diam shock can do a better job, with a larger pistion and more fluid in more extreme situations than a 2.5" body shock. These Fox shocks are Monotube design, which means that the internal piston seals the ID of that 3" diam body as opposed to a 2.5" body, so I'll say with certainty that the shock piston is bigger in the 3.0 vs the 2.5 shock. Bigger is better in this case because the piston can have bigger oil flow holes, and therefore the ability to allow quicker, harder movements, depending on the shim stack configuration. In other words, if you're hammering down a washboard section at high speed, a 2.5" diam piston max velocity is limited by it's smaller holes, and therefore you may feel more of the hard hits than the 3.0.

If you're not working your suspension very hard, that increase in size may never benefit you. These are just my opinions, and I'm biased because I just picked up a set of Gen 2 3.0 shocks and my plan is to use Eibach Gen 1 650# springs in front for a little extra lift, and Deaver +3 (SD or HD, not decided yet) out back. Hoping for about 2" of lift out back?

Because the Gen 1 6.2 V8 is heavier and needs that 650# spring (vs 550# for v6), I'll have to have the rebound damping of the Gen 2 3.0 shock increased and compression damping slightly decreased, to balance suspension movement, I THINK?

The gen 2 3.0 shock being longer in front may pose a problem with overextending the front suspension downward, so I may use an Evil Manufacturing Gen 1 Raptor limiting strap kit welded in too.

Oh, and @Jhollowell, from what I've heard, the larger 3.0 shock wears far slower than the 2.5, like by nearly twice as long in most situations, and that to me adds more value to the swap. Your mileage may vary.... ;)
 
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MFNG

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I did it. Mostly on-road driving so I didn’t care much as far as full travel length. The ride is quite noticeably smoother with the larger diameter.
 

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votive

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You actually do not gain any suspension travel with the Fox 3.0. Hopefully your up-down travel limitations are determined by your spring setup and bump stop position. If you're bottoming or topping out on your shock internals there's something wrong with your setup and you're hammering your shock piston in ways it's not supposed to be hammered.

That being said, the Gen 2 3.0 Fox shock is a little longer than the Gen 1, so, if you don't have correct bump stops to stop upward travel, you could more easily bottom that Gen 2 Fox out on it's internals.

My intentions with the GEN2 rear shocks were a bang-for-the-buck upgrade without going all out. I'm not really looking for any more suspension travel, just a more controlled ride in the back end paired with Deavers.

From what I understand the KHC brackets lift the rear shock mount up, fixing the issue of the GEN2 shock being longer than the GEN1.
 
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votive

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I did it. Mostly on-road driving so I didn’t care much as far as full travel length. The ride is quite noticeably smoother with the larger diameter.

I find it interesting that you used the Live-valve shocks. I assumed that this mod had to be done with the dummy GEN2 shocks. Do you find them to be too firm?

@Pacific Wheel is the only other member I have found so far that has done this mod and I was looking for a few more opinions before I decided to pull the trigger or not.
 

Pacific Wheel

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I think the ride is better too.

I believe Mikra Mfg dynoed both shocks and the GEN2 3.0 had much better longevity as mentioned above.

@FishFreak He is only doing the rear conversion. GEN1 fronts. From what I was told by KHC is that their rear mount relocates the top of the shock upward so it's in the proper operating length opposed to the people that squeezed them into the stock GEN1 mount. So you still hit the oem bump stop rather than collapsing the shock prior to hitting the bump stop. You do get some extra down travel though if you're running Deavers.

All in all I had to rebuild my OEM GEN1 rears every 20k with mostly street driving. If I can get 30k or 40k out of the GEN2 shocks I'm all for it.
 

MFNG

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I find it interesting that you used the Live-valve shocks. I assumed that this mod had to be done with the dummy GEN2 shocks. Do you find them to be too firm?

I randomly found a deal on some live valves with the delete kit already on them so I went for it.

It doesn’t seems too firm in my opinion. I actually thought it was super floaty feeling compared to the stock, but those were blown anyway, so hard to tell.
 

eastreich

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I ran the 3.0 rears for about 10k before putting the KHC front buckets/3.0s in for the full conversion. Ran the rears with both OEM (25k) and Deaver +3s (20k to current). Last 10k added the KHC rear brackets (where I am now).

The Gen 2 3.0 rears are a noticeable improvement all on their own. That said, with the stock springs and brackets it is a bit of work to get them in. I had to throw bottle jack in between the frame and axle if I didn't want to fight anything. Or let all the nitrogen out and charge them back up once installed.

The lower shaft shield on the 3.0s will rub against the spring brackets. You can leave it, but know it will happen. I cut a small bit of the shield away for clearancing.

If you push it off road with OEM brackets you WILL bottom the 3.0 shock out before your bumps would take care of it. If that worries someone space your stock bumps down a bit. If you have air bumps put a thicker bump pad on the bump or drop the bumps if you can. Need about an inch less uptravel to be safe.

Piston in the 3.0 is larger, so all other things equal it will have more consistent control. I will be tearing the 3.0s down after the next 5k miles, as my set will be at 50k total and due for a fluid/seal refresher. Already have the seals and oil sitting here. I may pull my stock 2.5s down at the same time just for a direct comparison, and I am curious.
 
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