Full Cantilever Rear = 20" Usable Rear Wheel Travel

[Rogue Racing]

huh i would have thought the rear end would drop out more then what it appears to in the pics. would a spring under version drop out more or cycle more travel?

It would indeed cycle the full allotted 20 inches under all circumstances with a spring under kit. We will build a spring under kit as well, unfortunately most truck owners don't have the immediate means to weld on leaf spring perches accurately. How ever when driven on a trail with un even terrain in most cases the input of one wheel going up and one being forced down by spring, nitrogen pressure, and un sprung weight the canti lever kit will cycle all of the useable travel the mast 2.5 inches of down travel doesn't move as freely as a spring under would. The spring under is a definite advantage to an already great performing kit.

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 PM ----------

Can you explain how you're achieving 2" of additional uptravel without notching the frame or messing with the bed?

It's actually not 2 inches, I apologize if that was stated before there might have been a miscommunication. It is more like 1.375 inches. To our knowledge most bump stop kits are designed to factory bump. We simply installed our leaf pack and bumped the truck as deep in the travel possible and engineered the bump height with the most available up travel allowed. The axle will get .75 from the factory frame.

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------

Can you explain how you're achieving 2" of additional uptravel without notching the frame or messing with the bed?

It's actually not 2 inches, I apologize if that was stated before there might have been a miscommunication. It is more like 1.375 inches. To our knowledge most bump stop kits are designed to factory bump. We simply installed our leaf pack and bumped the truck as deep in the travel possible and engineered the bump height with the most available up travel allowed. The axle will get .75 from the factory frame.

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

We offer a simple spare tire mount, it is basically a .75" hole in your bed at the cross member on the cantilever kit to receive a long bolt. The tire sits flush on the bed floor pulled snug by the bolt thru our hub bracket. It works great and is simply removed for full bed use with a lug key.

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------

Perhaps I missed it being posted, But will the spare tire still fit under the bed and can the exhaust be maintained as the factory exit? Also, I'm wondering what kind of mechanical advantage there is? With the shocks in the original location, there is a 1:1 ratio of movement. The rear axle move up or down 1" the shock compressed or extend 1". With this set up, are the numbers the same? Or is there a mechanical advantage? Less shock movement for the same travel the smaller the shock can be. Yukon Joe www.RUNRAPTORRUN.com

In off road racing there is a factor that few people or even companies understand. This is Piston Torque versus Piston Speed. This refers to the piston in the shock and the loads in encounters. When the shock is mounted 1:1 with no mechanical advantage it can be valved and sprung lighter. But the piston sees higher shaft speeds causing the oil to heat faster and shocks to fade. This is why Trophy truck shocks continue to grow in overall size. A bigger shock holds more oil that effectively heats slower. As the viscosity of the oil goes down so does the ride quality or control. Piston torque is the load the piston encounters trying to physically bend the piston and shims. When shocks are mounted with a mechanical advantage they have more piston torque requiring heavier valving. But they move substantially slower so the oil temps stay lower and the shock operates to maximum efficiency longer. Our cantilever kit cycles 19.75 inches of travel out of a 14 stroke shock, this is a 1.41 motion ratio. Very similar to a trophy truck that cycles 32 inches out of an 18 inch stroke shock. Thanks for the question

---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

Motion ratio was going to be my next question, or more specifically, is the shock motion ratio progressing as it compresses into the bumps, and if so, how progressive is the motion ratio. Is motion ratio ploted on a graph we can look at?

The motion ratio is not progressive by design but has some inherent change by the axle rolling forward and the dog bone pushing at a different angle. The bypass shocks "ramp up" by design with stages progressively closing off to make the truck more stiff in the bump zone. There is no graph to view, although the kit spoke for it self this week at the raptor run. I would confidently say there are people on the forum that experienced the speed and control of the "black eco boost" Brandon from TMX was given a ride as was Trey that puts on the event. I would love to hear there input on the kit, after riding in the truck. We understand that this event wasn't a race but we passed 18 trucks in a single lap and some with far more modifications.

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 PM ----------

Thanks guys for all your great technical questions and patience to getting them answered! Our engineering department is so busy in R & D right now. It will be worth it though we have some exciting things in the works! Thanks for all your feedback we really take into account!

---------- Post added at 09:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------

They have both a raptor and a Chevy they were testing out at TRR. Never really asked why they brought the Chevy.

We were out there testing our Chevy Dominator cantilever kit too.

---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------

Wtf Chevy???? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because Race Truck! Best answer I can give you on this

---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------

I could totally stress test that for y'all I did tear off one of my shock mounts[/QUOTE

Thanks for the offer and someone should start a "Casualties of TRR" thread....

---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 PM ----------

Stage 2

Actually Stage 3 Uppers, Lowers, Tie Rods w/ Kings

---------- Post added at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

When do you estimate to have a video?

Hopefully soon.. I know someone got something at TRR..we'll post as soon as it surfaces!

 

[KaiserM715]

I am loving the technical discussion!!

 

[Blind1]

You can move it anywhere you want but I'm still not going understand WTF RR just posted. Friggin engineers hurt my f'n head...

 

[ironside]

We were out there testing our Chevy Dominator cantilever kit too.

---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------



Because Race Truck! Best answer I can give you on this

---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------

I could totally stress test that for y'all I did tear off one of my shock mounts[/QUOTE

Thanks for the offer and someone should start a "Casualties of TRR" thread....

---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 PM ----------



Actually Stage 3 Uppers, Lowers, Tie Rods w/ Kings

---------- Post added at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------



Hopefully soon.. I know someone got something at TRR..we'll post as soon as it surfaces!

Got ya wish I could have had more time to come over and visit with you guys. Did you ever get your tailgate back on the eco raptor. That dang thing was heavy to load by myself out on trail when I brought it back in to the pits.

 

[Huck]

Devils advocate here, can this be setup with larger than 3,0" shocks?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pirate air]

The motion ratio is not progressive by design but has some inherent change by the axle rolling forward and the dog bone pushing at a different angle. The bypass shocks "ramp up" by design with stages progressively closing off to make the truck more stiff in the bump zone. There is no graph to view, although the kit spoke for it self this week at the raptor run. I would confidently say there are people on the forum that experienced the speed and control of the "black eco boost" Brandon from TMX was given a ride as was Trey that puts on the event. I would love to hear there input on the kit, after riding in the truck. We understand that this event wasn't a race but we passed 18 trucks in a single lap and some with far more modifications.

OK. I just figured shock shaft to cantilever pivot angle would change as the suspension was cycled, changing the motion ratio. Seems most kits or cantilever designs take advantage (and almost need to for ease of shock tuning purposes) of a progressive ratio. My only thought was, if your kit had progressive motion ratio (to the point where at fully compressed the shock angle approached 90*), would the progressive valving of my after market 3.0 shocks be too much to work well without re valving. Basically just looking at the cost and feasibility of reusing my old shocks if I were to buy this kit.

The cost of this kit will add up quick. I can see an easy 7 to 8 grand just in parts to set this kit up to how it was ran at trr. 3000 for the cantilever kit, 2500+ for upgraded shocks, and then whatever your bump kit cost to take advantage of the extra up travel. Since I haven't seen a price for the bump kit I can only assume it will cost around 1500?? And I will have to buy springs since my current ones are f'd. Might as well call it 10 grand total by the time you add shipping. I don't doubt Treys or Brandons or whoevers impressions of the kit after a ride at trr. But 7-10 grand can take me several different directions on my rear suspension, and for that kinda money I need to know it's my best option based on several different factors including the technical details, not just a good performing option based off of some initial first impression. I hope it's understandable that i don't want to put this kind of money into my truck just to rip it off a year or two later because it didn't live up to my expectations or because the little stuff was overlooked.

 

[Rogue Racing]

10k will get you everything needed
- bump stop kit
-cantilever stage 5 leaf under (released in 60 days) (comes with rear end gusset )
-leafs
- 3.0shocks
-2.5 bumps
Stage 4 was shown at TRR & is 7k for everything

4.0 shocks are not necessary unless 1:1 ratio bed cage style

 

[pirate air]

10k will get you everything needed
- bump stop kit
-cantilever stage 5 leaf under (released in 60 days) (comes with rear end gusset )
-leafs
- 3.0shocks
-2.5 bumps
Stage 4 was shown at TRR & is 7k for everything

4.0 shocks are not necessary unless 1:1 ratio bed cage style

Thanks. I'll look out for the sprung under version.

 

[Rogue Racing]

OK. I just figured shock shaft to cantilever pivot angle would change as the suspension was cycled, changing the motion ratio. Seems most kits or cantilever designs take advantage (and almost need to for ease of shock tuning purposes) of a progressive ratio. My only thought was, if your kit had progressive motion ratio (to the point where at fully compressed the shock angle approached 90*), would the progressive valving of my after market 3.0 shocks be too much to work well without re valving. Basically just looking at the cost and feasibility of reusing my old shocks if I were to buy this kit.

The cost of this kit will add up quick. I can see an easy 7 to 8 grand just in parts to set this kit up to how it was ran at trr. 3000 for the cantilever kit, 2500+ for upgraded shocks, and then whatever your bump kit cost to take advantage of the extra up travel. Since I haven't seen a price for the bump kit I can only assume it will cost around 1500?? And I will have to buy springs since my current ones are f'd. Might as well call it 10 grand total by the time you add shipping. I don't doubt Treys or Brandons or whoevers impressions of the kit after a ride at trr. But 7-10 grand can take me several different directions on my rear suspension, and for that kinda money I need to know it's my best option based on several different factors including the technical details, not just a good performing option based off of some initial first impression. I hope it's understandable that i don't want to put this kind of money into my truck just to rip it off a year or two later because it didn't live up to my expectations or because the little stuff was overlooked.

Your Icon's will work with this kit its just a matter of us figuring out the exact length of the dog bone. We totally understand this is a potentially large investment. Thats why we will be sending out a kit to SDHQ & Trey so they can install, run and report feedback directly to you guys. I think their honest opinions will really help you make your decision. We are very confident in this design and performance, we can't wait for you guys to get to experience it too. So stay tuned for that! We are a few weeks out before this kit is available so in the meantime feel to contact us if you have any further questions or feedback!

-Chris
Rogue Racing

 

[Schultz]

Will the RPG stage 3 work with this

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

And I would like to thank Rogue for dinner Saturday night and the show they put on for all of us.