Engine Swap

[Kaz109]

You’ll never be able to get through to him that a EcoBoost is a great engine with a ton of power potential. If it’s not a V8, he badmouths it. He’s known for confusing his opinions with the facts and trolling the Gen 2 forums.

I agree with you, an engine swap is a complete waste of money and devalues the vehicle. Never mind the other glitches that come with swapping an engine on any modern vehicle as well as the massive weight increase over the front axle, which is detrimental to the capability of the truck off-road. We have an extremely capable engine with factory twin turbos; if you even put half that $35k into an EcoBoost you’d have more power than you could ever use.

I agree with everything you just said but wait a minute, where did this 35k come from? He was saying all this could be done for 10k

 

[Kaz109]

I am aware of Hennessey's reputation.

But are you aware of the difference in acceleration between a vehicle that weighs 7.6 pounds per horsepower and one that weighs 12.6 pounds per horsepower?

That is a MASSIVE difference.

My Gen 1 makes less than 758 hp and weighs a good bit more than a Gen 2 and it piles and piles and piles lengths on them.

I assure you that 300 horsepower actually makes a lot more than a 1 truck length difference. This is really not debatable.

Okay I can actually agree with you just on sheer numbers I guess my overall problem is the comparison in general.

Hennessy takes a scab what's the V8 and a supercharger on it, then takes it deadstock screw and lines them up.

So For 160k you can put buses on a stock Raptor...ummmm ok. If you want to validate your argument then actually posed an apples-to-apples comparison. Not one car built and one car stock.

 

[Kaz109]

$10k is the cost to supercharge a Gen 1.

$26.5k is the cost to pay a good shop to swap a Whippled Coyote and new 10 speed into a Gen 2. That is of course before you sell your original engine and transmission. Those are currently going for ~ $5k from what I have seen.

Hahahahaha...... this debate is over. There's no way you have a straight face when you're typing all this.

With this new information that I have there's no possible way you can convince me that with that kind of money put into the EcoBoost you're not going to get the same result...

I don't want to hear anything about why owners feel at the V8 is better because we've already been over that feeling it's not a fact it is a preference

 

[lateralis]

I think I would rather put that 26k into the suspension of the truck with mild engine upgrades than doing a Coyote swap. The V8 swap might win at the drag strip but it's going to lose in the dirt where it matters. This is unless you dump another 26k+ into the suspension to handle the motor.... At that point F it... build a legit trophy tuck.

 

[Kaz109]

Go ahead and get a quote from RMB on a 4.2 with all the bells and whistles and come back to me.

Already have man and it is nowhere near 26k.....just let it go. Your stance on this is not fact based but rather preference based

 

[FordTechOne]

BS. As you may recall, I recently corrected your fake news about the Raptor having a Ford GT motor in it. Now, if the Raptor actually DID have a Ford GT motor in it, I would own one. With the dry sump oiling system and a good rotating assembly, that engine holds power. And with much bigger turbos and cams, that engine also revs.

If you put ~$15k into the Full Race big turbo kit you can make close to 600 whp with the Raptor's existing engine. But it won't last long. And then you'll have to build it. And at that point you might as well just have gone with the Coyote.

All this is moot if 450-500 crank hp in a 3 ton truck is all you're interested in. But the existing engine just doesn't have the ability to hold enough power to make it interesting to me.

Fake news? Sorry troll, but the GT engine is a Gen 2 EcoBoost, same engine used in the Raptor. The GT has an upgraded rotating assembly and dry sump oil system. It’s not a completely different engine as your portray it to be. They share the same architecture and many of the same part numbers, right down to the valve covers, VCT solenoids, and crank sprocket. Even the direct and port fuel injectors and HPFP are identical part numbers between both applications.

You throw out numbers with no data to back them up and make assertions that are absolutely baseless. You claim 600HP won’t last long on a Gen 2 EcoBoost...apparently you’ve gathered empirical evidence to support your claims? Of course you haven’t, all you do is spew BS with nothing to back it up.

As for adding F/I to Coyotes and 6.2’s, good luck getting those to last long term without internal upgrades. Everything from the ring gap to the PCV system on those engines is designed for natural aspiration; that is why F/I engines use different internal components from the factory. The crank snouts and main bearings are also not designed for the additional load of a supercharger. You can post all the dynos and drag races you want, most people like to keep their vehicles past 100k miles without needing an engine rebuild.

 

[lateralis]

Trophy trucks cost $500k and up.

Interestingly, though, they also have high power V8s

Ya and they custom built engines and yada yada I get it. My point is if I take a stock Raptor and dump 26k into the suspension vs a stock Raptor with a 26k V8 conversion and put them in the dirt who is going to have a better time? Sure as hell isn't going to be the V8. To put up with the extra weight and power you need a suspension that will keep up. So tack on and extra 26k just to get you there suspension wise. No we are talking well over 120K total just to get to the level of dirt capability. Why bother when you could just buy a V8 F150 and dump all the money into the suspension and a blower at that point. It's stupid and not worth the time or money since you are basically paying for the "Raptor Badge" at that point. You could easily make a V8 F150 look like a Raptor, SC it, and do all the crazy suspension crap you want for less than what we are talking about for gutting a Gen2 Raptor. Only way I think this is reasonable is if you found a totaled Gen2 to save from the crusher and it didn't matter anyway.

 

[FordTechOne]

You realize you are repeating back to me the things I taught you about the Ford GT, right?​

You didn’t teach anyone anything because you have no data or information. All you do is speculate. Raptor and GT use the same Gen 2 EcoBoost engine architecture. Not sure why you can’t understand that.

I have seen them fail at that level and so has RMB...

https://www.fordraptorforum.com/posts/1451257/

What you claim to have “seen” is anecdotal evidence. Nobody cares.

There are thousands of supercharged 6.2s and 5.0s out there. The overwhelming majority have zero issues.

Now, with all due respect, this thread is about Coyote swapping a Gen 2. If you don't have anything meaningful to contribute, please take your trolling elsewhere.

You’ve made the thread about bashing the EcoBoost just like you do with every thread you post in.

Where is your evidence that the “overwhelming majority” of supercharged coyotes and 6.2s have “zero issues”? Those engines were never designed for F/I, and as I mentioned there are a lot of systems that will be negatively affected long-term. That is something that people need to consider when looking at these swaps; if they want long term durability and performance, supercharging an N/A engine is not a good option.

 

[Kaz109]

You've left a few things out, I'm sure. Like the cost to swap and the upgraded turbos and all the other upgrades you will no doubt need.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is what happens to the low end power and torque and power delivery (boost lag) when you go to big turbos and move your power band significantly higher.

Supercharged V8s don't have those issues.

No I didn't leave anything out because unlike you I actually had experience in building turbo Motors I know what's needed and I know what they're capable of which is why I know that you grasping at straws on why the V8 is better for this application is fake news.

Only baby boomers believe in this nonsense

 

[Donmatteo]

http://racecast.com.au/v12ls/