Engine rattle/noise at start up

[OPT PRIME]

Please keep us posted. I really hope Ford does the right thing and does not blame the tune.

They won’t. Phases have nothing to do with a tune.


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[Quaesta]

They won’t. Phases have nothing to do with a tune.


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Didn’t they deny your claim because of a tune?

 

[OPT PRIME]

Didn’t they deny your claim because of a tune?

No. The truck is flagged and if it has a failure down the road related to a tune I may have an issue. The lead Tech said the phasers have nothing to do with the tune so they didn’t ask Ford for permission to cover it.

That being said they, nor I could get the Whipple tune out. Somehow the tune I had from Whipple was not recognized by Fords Oasis as a valid part number and the tech could not write over it. The PCM has to have a valid part number so Oasis can verify it’s uploading a Raptor tune to a Raptor and not a Focus. He also tried to reformat the PCM as new, no dice.

The dealer offered to try to get the truck back to stock and warranty with a new $480 PCM, no dice it, it couldn’t be loaded with a stock tune because now the BCM doesn’t have a recognizable VIN any longer. The tech sent a message to Ford and they are trying to figure out how to get a new PCM to talk to the rest of the truck.

The Whipple tune has been a shit show, flagged my vehicle for life. The tech said to use another tuner that allows the truck to go back to the stock programming with the correct PCM Ford part number. As long as the PCM is a stock file and there are three start and heatup events a regional rep won’t deny a power train claim.

Whipple, advertising here that it’s a Ford tune with a Ford part number didn’t pan out to work exactly like that.

The truck is down again until real Ford engineers in Dearborn can figure out how to get everything back to stock and talking. Right now the truck ONLY works with the Whipple PCM.

Furthermore the rear axle is howling with a bad bearing.

I paid out of pocket for tensioners and chains because my tech said he wouldn’t replace them even though he feels they will need to be replaced anyways at 100k based on his experience. To save labor down the road I didn’t want new phasers and old parts which would require me to come back to this labor intensive procedure any quicker.

In a nutshell I think I’m going to ditch this thing. It’s my second F150 with an engine opened up inside 25k, my Corvette was a POS and I despise GM. That leaves Dodge and Toyota. Sucks, I don’t love either of those but my truck will have spent 2+ months in service in 18 months of ownership.




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[Obscure]

No. The truck is flagged and if it has a failure down the road related to a tune I may have an issue. The lead Tech said the phasers have nothing to do with the tune so they didn’t ask Ford for permission to cover it.

That being said they, nor I could get the Whipple tune out. Somehow the tune I had from Whipple was not recognized by Fords Oasis as a valid part number and the tech could not write over it. The PCM has to have a valid part number so Oasis can verify it’s uploading a Raptor tune to a Raptor and not a Focus. He also tried to reformat the PCM as new, no dice.

The dealer offered to try to get the truck back to stock and warranty with a new $480 PCM, no dice it, it couldn’t be loaded with a stock tune because now the BCM doesn’t have a recognizable VIN any longer. The tech sent a message to Ford and they are trying to figure out how to get a new PCM to talk to the rest of the truck.

The Whipple tune has been a shit show, flagged my vehicle for life. The tech said to use another tuner that allows the truck to go back to the stock programming with the correct PCM Ford part number. As long as the PCM is a stock file and there are three start and heatup events a regional rep won’t deny a power train claim.

Whipple, advertising here that it’s a Ford tune with a Ford part number didn’t pan out to work exactly like that.

The truck is down again until real Ford engineers in Dearborn can figure out how to get everything back to stock and talking. Right now the truck ONLY works with the Whipple PCM.

Furthermore the rear axle is howling with a bad bearing.

I paid out of pocket for tensioners and chains because my tech said he wouldn’t replace them even though he feels they will need to be replaced anyways at 100k based on his experience. To save labor down the road I didn’t want new phasers and old parts which would require me to come back to this labor intensive procedure any quicker.

In a nutshell I think I’m going to ditch this thing. It’s my second F150 with an engine opened up inside 25k, my Corvette was a POS and I despise GM. That leaves Dodge and Toyota. Sucks, I don’t love either of those but my truck will have spent 2+ months in service in 18 months of ownership.




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Sorry to hear about your trouble with your truck and the Whipple tune. Once I figured out that we weren't intended to ever be allowed to go back to stock after doing a Whipple tune (or any tune if Ford had their way) I ditched it. Thankfully I was able to get them to request a true stock file from Ford that I was able to load back on my truck. I originally had the same issue (Ford couldn't recognize my files) when I took my truck in to try to get the TCM/PCM updated when I was experiencing rough shifting.

Anyways, I don't know if the truck got flagged, but it played a role in me getting rid of it for a 2019.

 

[Quaesta]

So is this only an issue with the Whipple tune? The MPT allows you to go back.

 

[OPT PRIME]

You can go back to stock. They have to custom do it for you on a case by case basis.

Whipple was supposed to keep their tune part numbers updated at Ford. The idea behind this was to ensure there was compatibility between the BCM, PCM and TCM, all of which had a range of part numbers. In my case I somehow ended up with a tune that didn’t have a part number at all, no one really knows how all the modules actually talk.

When I received my latest update from Whipple I noticed that the .bin file is an ECUTek file. ECUtek has an entire online library of base files for each model of PCM. If we were using ECUTek desktop software it would be very easy to swap back to a factory tune, as easy as clicking the file and hitting upload. That being said we don’t each get an ECUTek license ($300 DESKey) for our trucks, we get a Tomahawk programmer which basically uploads the same file. To go back to stock Whipple would have to make you a .bin file that has the factory tune and part number so you can upload that via the Tomahawk.

What I would like to see is a Whipple tune jacked with a stock OEM part number.


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[cdurbin]

Question about this engine noise at startup...
I e seen the videos on YouTube that sound like...well complete ass. Mine isn’t that bad. But I will say, I have had a slight “rattle” since new that reminds me of the old 4.6Ls. They had notoriously loud injectors and to me that’s exactly what it sounds like. Does anyone else know what I’m talking about, and if so is this the noise everyone is saying are the phasers failing?

-Corey


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[smurfslayer]

Question about this engine noise at startup...
I e seen the videos on YouTube that sound like...well complete ass. Mine isn’t that bad. But I will say, I have had a slight “rattle” since new that reminds me of the old 4.6Ls. They had notoriously loud injectors and to me that’s exactly what it sounds like. Does anyone else know what I’m talking about, and if so is this the noise everyone is saying are the phasers failing?

-Corey


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This has become the Gen2 boogeyman.

The rampant paranoia and misdiagnosis over the internet. A great deal of modern engines use the same style of ratcheting, oil pressure adjusted valve trains, practically all of them make some level of noise at start up, and possibly just after startup for a brief time.

There are Raptor users who have this brief startup valve train noise.
There are some of us who have prolonged rattle or noise after startup.
There are some of us who are hearing the injectors and associated noise and assuming the worst.
There are some of us with long lasting rattle that are truly failing cam phasers(?) and / or cam chain tensioner.

if the tensioner goes, or is going, you’ll potentially have a very noticeable stumble.

The issue can be legit, and it’s been present in -I think- every major Ford engine since the original OHC 281 V8. Ford does a lot of tear down and replacements that aren’t warranted because owners who have convinced themselves they have the issue, convince the s/a that the issue is there and the dealerships out of a customer goodwill concern, perform the repair.

There are also legitimate failures, some of the owners have posted videos of the persistent rattle or knock and it’s present from early startup through normal operation. Those are failing or possibly out of spec parts that probably do need replacing.

If you think you have the failing phasers or valve train rattle, do 2 things.
take video, save it / preserve it and document it with your service advisor. Play them the video. Make them document the concern. If it ever actually happens later in ownership, you can show that you raised this concern before and the dealership wrongfully dismissed it. If you’re not sure that you actually have the problem, you’ve already spent too much time concerning yourself with it while reading this post.

 

[rtmozingo]

No. The truck is flagged and if it has a failure down the road related to a tune I may have an issue. The lead Tech said the phasers have nothing to do with the tune so they didn’t ask Ford for permission to cover it.

That being said they, nor I could get the Whipple tune out. Somehow the tune I had from Whipple was not recognized by Fords Oasis as a valid part number and the tech could not write over it. The PCM has to have a valid part number so Oasis can verify it’s uploading a Raptor tune to a Raptor and not a Focus. He also tried to reformat the PCM as new, no dice.

The dealer offered to try to get the truck back to stock and warranty with a new $480 PCM, no dice it, it couldn’t be loaded with a stock tune because now the BCM doesn’t have a recognizable VIN any longer. The tech sent a message to Ford and they are trying to figure out how to get a new PCM to talk to the rest of the truck.

The Whipple tune has been a shit show, flagged my vehicle for life. The tech said to use another tuner that allows the truck to go back to the stock programming with the correct PCM Ford part number. As long as the PCM is a stock file and there are three start and heatup events a regional rep won’t deny a power train claim.

Whipple, advertising here that it’s a Ford tune with a Ford part number didn’t pan out to work exactly like that.

The truck is down again until real Ford engineers in Dearborn can figure out how to get everything back to stock and talking. Right now the truck ONLY works with the Whipple PCM.

Furthermore the rear axle is howling with a bad bearing.

I paid out of pocket for tensioners and chains because my tech said he wouldn’t replace them even though he feels they will need to be replaced anyways at 100k based on his experience. To save labor down the road I didn’t want new phasers and old parts which would require me to come back to this labor intensive procedure any quicker.

In a nutshell I think I’m going to ditch this thing. It’s my second F150 with an engine opened up inside 25k, my Corvette was a POS and I despise GM. That leaves Dodge and Toyota. Sucks, I don’t love either of those but my truck will have spent 2+ months in service in 18 months of ownership.




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Wow you've had a bad time of it with your vehicles.

There are two kinds of startup rattles with our trucks so far - the transmission rattle, which I (and everyone else) seems to have which is normal, and the cam phaser rattle, which will lead to severe problems down the road.

 

[mmayo]

anything new regarding the timing chain issue?