GEN 2 Deavers, Kings, and Sad Face

[dubya_raptor]

I am running King 3.0s with +3 HD Deavers. My truck rides better than my new BMW M. It is slightly firmer than stock, but the dampening is ridiculous. My suspension eats up everything. I have put 10,000 miles on them.

But as you noted, you added race truck parts to your truck. There are only trade offs when it comes to adding aftermarket parts to your truck: do you want to sacrifice on road drive ability for off road ability?

That's what I expected to see after install; lose the float feeling, but still have some smoothness on road (especially with compression open).

I get the race truck parts thing to a degree, but maybe I made the wrong assumption. I assumed that the parts would still yield some nice on-road qualities but have the adjustability and increased damping to allow oneself to tackle tougher terrain at higher rates of speed. Surely King knew that the majority of Raptor owners daily drive their trucks and would set valving and spring rate accordingly. I thought this was going a step up. Maybe I should have done more homework.....



Anyways, I need to find someone local that has deavers to see how their truck rides.

 

[dubya_raptor]

Try 30psi up front and 26-28psi or so in the back for your tires. Have you had a chance to check the pressure on the Kings yet? I installed a Carli Pintop kit on my F450 and it rode way rougher than I thought it should. I called King and they said my shock pressure was probably too high. I checked it and they were at 220psi. They suggested I not go down below 100psi or so, so I put it down to 110psi and it made a world of difference. Gone was the harsh banging I got across freeway expansion joints, etc. King said that if lowering the shock pressure didn't help then they would revalve them for me based on my preferences. Apparently the first revalve is free, so all you would have to do is pay shipping back and forth. I'm guessing a change in your shock pressure will make quite a bit of difference.

Did King say anything about cavitation due to a decrease in nitrogen pressure? Or is it safe to a degree to let some pressure out? I will try that when I take my truck in this week. Trick.Raptor had the same advice so y'all must be on to something.

 

[TheButcher]

Did King say anything about cavitation due to a decrease in nitrogen pressure? Or is it safe to a degree to let some pressure out? I will try that when I take my truck in this week. Trick.Raptor had the same advice so y'all must be on to something.

He said it shouldn't be too much of an issue, but definitely don't go under 85psi or so. Now, keep in mind this was on an F450 driving down the road and occasional ranch roads, not a Raptor getting flogged on. I'd suggest checking where they are now (probably 200+), and then go down in small increments to see if you notice a difference. I'd say maybe stop at 120-130psi, but that is a number I literally pulled out of my a$$. It's just a guess so your mileage may vary. Be VERY careful when letting air out as it escapes very quickly. In fact, I did it with an air chuck that had a gauge that went to 220 and all I had to do was press it on to read the pressure, pull it back off, and then press it back on to check the pressure again. I think it went in 20-30 psi increments each time I did that. You don't even have to press the release valve on the air chuck. If you did press the release valve it would probably dump most if not all of the nitrogen in the shock and you would have to get it filled back up again. It's not the end of the world, but a PITA if you have to get them filled back up because you shouldn't drive on them if they don't have any pressure. The trick will be finding an air chuck with gauge that goes to 200psi. I ordered one from Grainger, but actually used a Snap On gauge that a guy at 4WP happened to have.

 

[TheButcher]

Anyways, I need to find someone local that has deavers to see how their truck rides.

I have Deaver +3s on the back of my Raptor and it rides great. Totally different shock set up though, so that is likely your issue. I have Deaver's on the back of my F450 and it changed the ride dramatically (for the better). They know how to make a good spring, but the shocks can totally change how they ride. When I first installed the kit on my F450 (Carli Pin Top) I had to use an off the shelf ProComp shock for a few weeks while we sent the front King shocks to King for them to put longer rod ends on them (due to me making the lift 6.5" instead of 4.5"). It rode like a dream on the road, and I joked that if we got the Kings on there and it didn't ride as good as the cheap Pro Comps I was just going to run the Pro Comps. Well, it road WAY worse with the Kings on it. However, after adjusting the pressure it made all the difference in the world, and the ride is much more controlled instead of being just a touch floaty.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That's what I expected to see after install; lose the float feeling, but still have some smoothness on road (especially with compression open).

I get the race truck parts thing to a degree, but maybe I made the wrong assumption. I assumed that the parts would still yield some nice on-road qualities but have the adjustability and increased damping to allow oneself to tackle tougher terrain at higher rates of speed. Surely King knew that the majority of Raptor owners daily drive their trucks and would set valving and spring rate accordingly. I thought this was going a step up. Maybe I should have done more homework.....



Anyways, I need to find someone local that has deavers to see how their truck rides.

Yea, I am sorry to hear your problems. I have a Rogue suspension. Rogue is suppose to have the King shocks specially tuned/valved to their liking, so I don’t know how different a pair of King shocks not purchased through Rogue would be from a Rogue order. Then again, you worked with SVC, so I would think SVC would have given you great advice!

Heck, the Gen 2 Raptor that TMX finished a couple of months ago with a podium package (double bypass King shocks up front with 4.0 King Kong shocks in the rear) just drove from Louisiana to Cali, from Cali to Baja, and from Baja back to Louisiana. That system would be harsher than the 3.0s, but someone wouldn’t drive thousands of miles across the country (mostly on highways) if the ride was like what you described.

I don’t think it was a lack of homework. I think you have had unfortunate circumstances: maybe due to the PSI. I had very similar expectations to you in regards to what I may or may not give up in ride quality. 5000 miles of the 10,000 miles that I have driven since installing the suspension and shocks has been highway. I have driven from Texas to Florida twice and from Florida to North Carolina to ride the Blue Ridge Parkway. Each of those long trips I grinned ear to ear with how well the truck drove. I hope you can get this resolved where you can enjoy your vehicle as much as I enjoy mine!

 

[Huck]

If it’s that harsh check you rebound tubes.

It’s possible it’s kicking back too quickly.
For ***** and giggles try blocking the rebound almost all the way closed. Then the truck should drop and take a while to ride back up after a hit.


I agree the kings with the 2 rebound 2 compressive are challenging to tune. I need to tweak mine a bit as well it’s a bit stiff. I had to tighten down the rebound, that was my issue

Remember if you adjust the lower tappet fluid still flows through the top one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zombiekiller]

There doesn't look to be any interference between the shackle and the frame, but i will double check both sides this afternoon.

I guess you could say there is a bucking sensation. It feels as though the rear is preloaded; every bump I go over is much more abrupt in the rear. Maybe this causes the front to feel stiffer than it is?

How could I check for coil bind?

The rear bumps have plenty of clearance. Only engage them when I'm running the truck hard off road.

I have been taking detailed notes of any adjustments made to the rear bypasses. Only adjusting one tube at a time; usually in increments of 1 - 1.5 revolutions.

Turn your rebound adjustments out in the rear. Whatever halfway between where you are and full open is. take it for a drive. if it smooths out a bit, the next thing i'd try is adding a turn of compression to the rear. drive again.

If it doesnt smooth out, go back to the setting you were at previously, then turn it IN half way between where you are and fully in.

After you get the rear closer, you may find that you need to add some front compression.

Did you take any of the preload out of the front?

RE- coil bind. Get a few of the thinnest little zip ties you can find and put them around an individual spring coil in the front. You only need to wrap one around A coil on each front coilover spring.

then go take a drive and hit a bigger bump at a moderate speed.

Check to see if the zip tie is damaged or not ( if you're getting coil bind, it probably won't be there anymore).

If the rear is off, it will make the front feel like shit.

It may be worth your while to have a professional tune your shocks, or at least go for a ride with you and make some adjustment recommendations.

There is a reason that places like shock therapy and accutune are in business.

https://accutuneoffroad.com/shock_tuning/

 

[zombiekiller]

Yea, I am sorry to hear your problems. I have a Rogue suspension. Rogue is suppose to have the King shocks specially tuned/valved to their liking, so I don’t know how different a pair of King shocks not purchased through Rogue would be from a Rogue order. Then again, you worked with SVC, so I would think SVC would have given you great advice!

Heck, the Gen 2 Raptor that TMX finished a couple of months ago with a podium package (double bypass King shocks up front with 4.0 King Kong shocks in the rear) just drove from Louisiana to Cali, from Cali to Baja, and from Baja back to Louisiana. That system would be harsher than the 3.0s, but someone wouldn’t drive thousands of miles across the country (mostly on highways) if the ride was like what you described.

I don’t think it was a lack of homework. I think you have had unfortunate circumstances: maybe due to the PSI. I had very similar expectations to you in regards to what I may or may not give up in ride quality. 5000 miles of the 10,000 miles that I have driven since installing the suspension and shocks has been highway. I have driven from Texas to Florida twice and from Florida to North Carolina to ride the Blue Ridge Parkway. Each of those long trips I grinned ear to ear with how well the truck drove. I hope you can get this resolved where you can enjoy your vehicle as much as I enjoy mine!

you mean my truck?


I'll say this... I thought it was good on the way out west. I hit Moab, I hit some stuff in western Utah, I hit some stuff in Nevada. Got to SVC and they swapped the coils, adjusted the nitrogen, swapped shackles, put in basic adjustments. ( because it wasn't set up as they'd designed because King screwed the coil-over order up, unbeknownst to TMX or me.) The eyelets were wrong, the springs were wrong, the jounce bumpers were missing and the nitrogen charges were all over the place.

Then I went to Baja.

I thought it was "just okay" in Baja.

THEN, The SVC guys were nice enough to truck themselves all the way out to Johnson Valley the day I was heading east.

A couple of hours of them tuning the shocks was world-changing for me.

now the truck is pretty damn dialed. I won't mess with one adjustment. I've measured the exposed threads on the adjusters, written everything all down, rechecked pressures, etc.

I would have spent YEARS dialing the truck to that point myself.

The best way to make it all work as intended is to have a pro tune the shocks.

At least that's my opinion.

So in summary, if you have the means and time, ask SVC if they will help tune them. I don't know what they'd charge, but whatever it costs, its worth it.

And just FYI - we can all make recommendations and what not, but someone that knows what they are feeling and how to fix it with suspension is like a wizard. It seems like the kind of skill that just comes with seat time, experimentation and experience. It is voodoo, but I'm okay with that.


Now I can't wait to get back down south. June can't come fast enough. I promise you my big bitch is gonna eat comparatively to where she was. I'm already able to hit things going twice as fast as before the tuning AND it is Lightyears smoother.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

you mean my truck?


I'll say this... I thought it was good on the way out west. I hit Moab, I hit some stuff in western Utah, I hit some stuff in Nevada. Got to SVC and they swapped the coils, adjusted the nitrogen, swapped shackles, put in basic adjustments. ( because it wasn't set up as they'd designed because King screwed the coil-over order up, unbeknownst to TMX or me.) The eyelets were wrong, the springs were wrong, the jounce bumpers were missing and the nitrogen charges were all over the place.

Then I went to Baja.

I thought it was "just okay" in Baja.

THEN, The SVC guys were nice enough to truck themselves all the way out to Johnson Valley the day I was heading east.

A couple of hours of them tuning the shocks was world-changing for me.

now the truck is pretty damn dialed. I won't mess with one adjustment. I've measured the exposed threads on the adjusters, written everything all down, rechecked pressures, etc.

I would have spent YEARS dialing the truck to that point myself.

The best way to make it all work as intended is to have a pro tune the shocks.

At least that's my opinion.

So in summary, if you have the means and time, ask SVC if they will help tune them. I don't know what they'd charge, but whatever it costs, its worth it.

And just FYI - we can all make recommendations and what not, but someone that knows what they are feeling and how to fix it with suspension is like a wizard. It seems like the kind of skill that just comes with seat time, experimentation and experience. It is voodoo, but I'm okay with that.


Now I can't wait to get back down south. June can't come fast enough. I promise you my big bitch is gonna eat comparatively to where she was. I'm already able to hit things going twice as fast as before the tuning AND it is Lightyears smoother.

Lol I had no clue that this was your handle on the forum! Thanks for chiming in. I am going to Baja next week with Texas Raptor Run!

But if you keep writing things like what you wrote above, and knowing how persuasive Jason and Sam are at TMX, I may be upgrading to some King Kongs when my 3.0s need a rebuild

 

[zombiekiller]

I'm telling you, going from stock to fox factory shocks, to what I have now is like going from a model A truck to a 6100.

With my rear 4.0s, I have so much shock that it takes a while to get them up to temp. I honestly probably don't even need bump stops. I have them set on the highest position ( svc bump frame ) and they are set at like 80 lbs of pressure.

with the back coming down about 4-5 feet ( with the front tires on the ground) at speed, at the bottom of the suspension cycle I'm still showing 3/4" of bump travel left on the bump cans and it is as smooth as a leaf spring truck is gonna get.

Enjoy Baja! I'm heading back in June with EXO again.

Food for thought though, the terrain out there is VERY different than Texas. ( even texana ).

Drive 60% and enjoy the ride. ( avoid going full "hero" on the jumps).

It's near impossible to find a part if someone in the group isn't carrying one as a spare ( whatever it is that you break).


and LOCTITE LOCTITE LOCTITE.


Don't be an idiot like me and have a steering rack bolt back out causing major headaches.