Cam Phaser/Engine Failure Reports

[nikhsub1]

What does it affect then? if the rattling is just a nuisance and not causing damage, why fix it?

I think over the long term it could cause issues with the timing/chain etc.

 

[OPT PRIME]

oh. got it. yea. It's not the normal cold start noise. I think that recording should be the bench mark. I watched a lot of other videos and it sounded like the normal cold startup noise.

thanks for posting that.

My truck never sounded remotely that bad but it went into limp mode with ah... 8,000 pound 28’ center console on I-4. That was embarrassing.


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[OPT PRIME]

The SSM is full of crap. It absolutely affect durability.

At high RPM, high boost those cams are clocking to reduce dynamic compression. When they lose precise control of the compression you get actual pre-ignition which shows up at as a misfire code, flashing CEL and limp mode. These engines are designed to run up into level 1 knock for power and efficiency, anything mechanical out of whack and instant limp mode.

I don’t need to explain what knock or detonation can do to a boosted high compression engine at full power, it’s fairly obvious.

Unusual warranty work was mentioned at the F investor call.


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[FordTechOne]

The SSM is full of crap. It absolutely affect durability.

At high RPM, high boost those cams are clocking to reduce dynamic compression. When they lose precise control of the compression you get actual pre-ignition which shows up at as a misfire code, flashing CEL and limp mode. These engines are designed to run up into level 1 knock for power and efficiency, anything mechanical out of whack and instant limp mode.

I don’t need to explain what knock or detonation can do to a boosted high compression engine at full power, it’s fairly obvious.

Unusual warranty work was mentioned at the F investor call.


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Glad to hear you know more than Ford Engineering.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect. The issue related to the camshaft phasers not parking on engine shutoff. When the locking pins don't engage, the phasers will rattle as oil pressure reaches the units on restart. This is the reason that many techs report being able to turn the camshafts by the wrench flats independent of the timing chain with the engine off. Once full oil pressure reaches the phasers, they operate properly. You can monitor the VCT_ERR PID on IDS to see the actual difference between the PCM commanded VCT duty cycle and the actual camshaft position. On startup (briefly due to limited PCM communication during cranking) you may see the error PID high. After that the phasers receive oil and operate within parameters.

 

[pastorwug]

Per the SSM, engine durability is not affected:

SSM 48272 - 2017-2018 F-150, 2018-2019 Expedition/Navigator - 3.5L EcoBoost - Ticking/Tapping Or Rattle Type Noise On Start Up After A Cold Soak
Some 2017-2018 F-150s built on or before 10-Jul-2018 and 2018-2019 Expedition and Navigator built on or before 8-Apr-2019 with 3.5L EcoBoost may exhibit tick, tap, or rattle type noises from top of engine front cover for 2-5 seconds after a cold start. A TSB is expected to be published late 4th quarter 2019. In the interim, replace all 4 VCT units and update the PCM calibration. Do not replace other cam drive related components unless inspection identifies a concern. Refer to the Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-01. Claim labor replace VCTs using published labor operations and PCM programming using M-time. Part availability is currently limited. Dealers should order parts only when required to complete a repair. Once the parts are ordered, the vehicle may be returned to the customer to drive. This condition does not affect long term durability or performance.

Any chance of getting a copy of this SSM 48272?
I want to make sure they don't charge me for a oil change since it should be included in all this work they are doing.

 

[Kuan]

Glad to hear you know more than Ford Engineering.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect. The issue related to the camshaft phasers not parking on engine shutoff. When the locking pins don't engage, the phasers will rattle as oil pressure reaches the units on restart. This is the reason that many techs report being able to turn the camshafts by the wrench flats independent of the timing chain with the engine off. Once full oil pressure reaches the phasers, they operate properly. You can monitor the VCT_ERR PID on IDS to see the actual difference between the PCM commanded VCT duty cycle and the actual camshaft position. On startup (briefly due to limited PCM communication during cranking) you may see the error PID high. After that the phasers receive oil and operate within parameters.

I guess I don't understand. If there is a TSB issued for this, wouldn't that mean there was some kind of problem it causes for the engine?
From what you are saying, it sounds like you want people to disregard the sound and all will be fine. Is that what you mean? I had mine replaced and the service people said that it needed fixed right away so I didn't lose the timing chain too. My repair did not get a new chain.

 

[Raptor911]

it is like 4k for labor to crack open the engine so you should replace the chain. My wife's 2018 F150 got a new chain.

I guess I don't understand. If there is a TSB issued for this, wouldn't that mean there was some kind of problem it causes for the engine?
From what you are saying, it sounds like you want people to disregard the sound and all will be fine. Is that what you mean? I had mine replaced and the service people said that it needed fixed right away so I didn't lose the timing chain too. My repair did not get a new chain.

 

[mmayo]

Any chance of getting a copy of this SSM 48272?
I want to make sure they don't charge me for a oil change since it should be included in all this work they are doing.

I have it posted in thread above

 

[pastorwug]

I have it posted in thread above

That's all there was to it? I thought it might include more, but THANK YOU!

 

[OPT PRIME]

Glad to hear you know more than Ford Engineering.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect. The issue related to the camshaft phasers not parking on engine shutoff. When the locking pins don't engage, the phasers will rattle as oil pressure reaches the units on restart. This is the reason that many techs report being able to turn the camshafts by the wrench flats independent of the timing chain with the engine off. Once full oil pressure reaches the phasers, they operate properly. You can monitor the VCT_ERR PID on IDS to see the actual difference between the PCM commanded VCT duty cycle and the actual camshaft position. On startup (briefly due to limited PCM communication during cranking) you may see the error PID high. After that the phasers receive oil and operate within parameters.

My truck had PID errors at high RPM, stumbling (sounded like it was choking) and limp mode with a flashing CEL. They replaced the phasers and the problem went away. I had multiple P030X codes and even P0300 (general misfires). The P030X codes were seldom the same ones, ie it might be P0302 and P0304 this time and P0306 and P0301 next time.

I agree there is an issue with the pins not locking them into place at shutdown, but my problem went a bit beyond that. Now it’s back to rattling and making odd noises under full grunt at 15,000 miles (no CEL yet), exactly 15,000 miles since the phasers were replaced at 20,000. $3800 will be one heck a sting at 15,000 mile service intervals.

Lastly, variable cam phasing has been around since at least the 90s, this is my first vehicle that’s had issues with them, and round three currently. At this point I’m wondering what Ford Engineering has missed? Was there a talent pool drain in Detroit? Did engineers leave MI for places like SoCal to work for Toyota? Idk...




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