Cam Phaser/ Engine Failure Poll

[under_psi]

According to a post by FordTechOne, the current builds have a newly modified phaser and a computer update. Read backwards to find out what the cutoff date was. I believe he said it was April of 2019 and prior that may develop the issue (again check the previous pages).

In the above context, a 2020 should not exhibit the issue. Only time will tell but no one can predict the failure.

On Ford's site, they claim they built the engine to go through hell. It was designed to beat on it at Baja. So one would expect the engine to be rock solid.

I responded earlier that in my late build 2019 (Sept), well after the "cutoff" for the newly modified phasers etc, I hear the same exact sound as the "failure sound" but it is dramatically quieter. Meaning: what I am hearing may be the sound it's supposed to make. If the failure eventually decides to occur, that same sound will get louder and louder until it's quite obvious there is a problem (and will sound like what you hear in the various videos exhibiting the sound).

I took a chance and so far so good but the issue doesn't occur, generally, until you hit 15-30K miles. I only have 1500 miles.
So there you have it. When are you going to order your Raptor?

thanks....thats why I was asking because, I did read this thread backwards....and I noted that some late '19 owners having the issues and or heat the onset.....

theres a 2020 802a Leadfoot hitting the lot in 10-12 days here and I have FROR.....

 

[Kuan]

thanks....thats why I was asking because, I did read this thread backwards....and I noted that some late '19 owners having the issues and or heat the onset.....

theres a 2020 802a Leadfoot hitting the lot in 10-12 days here and I have FROR.....

I saw it mentioned that 4/08/19 was when another new set of part numbers was available. Are you sure you saw late build 19s have the same issue?

 

[under_psi]

I saw it mentioned that 4/08/19 was when another new set of part numbers was available. Are you sure you saw late build 19s have the same issue?

I was referring to a couple of the posts in this thread referring to later '19 ones having the issue. I did see the April part dates, and hope that maybe they've solved the issue.....I am still set on a 2020. looked over a lead foot one last week, but think ive decided on white....

thanks

 

[K223]

I also was told April was the cut over month to the new parts. So mid April on should have a good chance of getting the new style phasers. It’s documented in another thread. I’m just hoping it’s true and the latest fix holds up.

 

[FullAuto]

Add me to the 2x list.

 

[Badgertits]

For you guys w/ the cam phase issues- how long can you continue to safely drive the truck while it gets worse? Is it just slow & progressive? Are you still driving while you wait on parts/service appt or using a loaner? When they do fail entirely does it damage the rest of the engine?

 

[WraptorBoy]

For you guys w/ the cam phase issues- how long can you continue to safely drive the truck while it gets worse? Is it just slow & progressive? Are you still driving while you wait on parts/service appt or using a loaner? When they do fail entirely does it damage the rest of the engine?

I don't have the issue but I can give more info from what I know.

Some have driven with it and continue to drive with it. I mean, if you remote start the engine all the time, you'd never know you had the issue. I believe I read somewhere in the ten of thousands of miles (like 30s, 40s and 50s if I remember). Dealers mostly tell people to drive until the parts come in. If the phasers fail completely, I would guess there would be a noticable change in engine performance because the timing would be affected and they may fail in an undesirble position. I would think the timing phasing would not be so dramatic that if the phasers failed the engine would destroy itself. I think it may stall or not start (my logical guess).

One tech on this forum says it's not damaging as dealers are telling everyone they can drive with the issue until parts come in (weeks to months).

I believe the noise is caused by the phasers rattling back and forth until enough oil feeds them (1-2 seconds) to provide pressure to stabilize them. Once pressure is achieved, the rattle stops and they start phasing the timing as needed. The purpose of the phasers is for fuel economy and probably better cold engine performance. When the engine is cold you get one range of timing and when the engine is hot you get another range of timing etc etc. From this context, it seems damage would not be caused other than to (possibly) the phasers themselves by the unforseen rattle. Again my logical guess.

The other concern is the timing chain tensioners. They are also pressure sensitive (via oil) so when they receive the proper pressure (probably the instant you start the engine) they govern the tension of the timing chain(s).

It's been a while since I went through the entire thread so, to be honest, I don't remember if these two things are related or if they are just two complete different systems or should even be included in the same conversation.

Your warranty if 5yr/60K but you may as well get it done. I know I wouldn't want my engine opened up either but what can ya do?

 

[Badgertits]

I don't have the issue but I can give more info from what I know.

Some have driven with it and continue to drive with it. I mean, if you remote start the engine all the time, you'd never know you had the issue. I believe I read somewhere in the ten of thousands of miles (like 30s, 40s and 50s if I remember). Dealers mostly tell people to drive until the parts come in. If the phasers fail completely, I would guess there would be a noticable change in engine performance because the timing would be affected and they may fail in an undesirble position. I would think the timing phasing would not be so dramatic that if the phasers failed the engine would destroy itself. I think it may stall or not start (my logical guess).

One tech on this forum says it's not damaging as dealers are telling everyone they can drive with the issue until parts come in (weeks to months).

I believe the noise is caused by the phasers rattling back and forth until enough oil feeds them (1-2 seconds) to provide pressure to stabilize them. Once pressure is achieved, the rattle stops and they start phasing the timing as needed. The purpose of the phasers is for fuel economy and probably better cold engine performance. When the engine is cold you get one range of timing and when the engine is hot you get another range of timing etc etc. From this context, it seems damage would not be caused other than to (possibly) the phasers themselves by the unforseen rattle. Again my logical guess.

The other concern is the timing chain tensioners. They are also pressure sensitive (via oil) so when they receive the proper pressure (probably the instant you start the engine) they govern the tension of the timing chain(s).

It's been a while since I went through the entire thread so, to be honest, I don't remember if these two things are related or if they are just two complete different systems or should even be included in the same conversation.

Your warranty if 5yr/60K but you may as well get it done. I know I wouldn't want my engine opened up either but what can ya do?

lol actually I don't have a problem (yet? knock on wood I guess?) & I also purchased a 100k b2b extended warranty, & I also plan on adding a tune - which is why I was asking about how long you can go on driving the truck w/ this issue going on, from what I had read/researched previously you're kinda confirming what I thought - that once you have the problem identified you can continue driving w/o causing excess wear or additional damage other than to the parts that need replacing.

My educated guess is there have been very very few, if any, instances where a tune has interfered w/ getting the cam phasers covered under warranty. Personally, if I do start noticing some rattling on a cold start, I'll remove the tune keep driving that sucker another few weeks til it gets nice & loud, then make appt. w/ dealer, then keep driving waiting to bring it in, then wait around til they diagnose it & give it back, then continue driving it some more waiting on parts and THEN at that point, IF the dealer is particularly inquisitive for whatever reason & digs into the ECM log they'll just be a ton of data & ignitition cycles on stock tune & nothing to raise an eyebrow.

 

[Kuan]

Why would you buy the extended warranty if you fully planned on tuning the vehicle? Ford is reviewing warranty claims and not letting everything slide as in previous generations. They check the key cycles to see if the can claim the engine was tuned. All that just to find a way to deny. There was a recent video here that talked about how ford is reviewing claims for the Ford Performance vehicles. They have some sort of math that can equate key cycles to mileage.

 

[Booth9999]

Why would you buy the extended warranty if you fully planned on tuning the vehicle? Ford is reviewing warranty claims and not letting everything slide as in previous generations. They check the key cycles to see if the can claim the engine was tuned. All that just to find a way to deny. There was a recent video here that talked about how ford is reviewing claims for the Ford Performance vehicles. They have some sort of math that can equate key cycles to mileage.

It says specifically “was tuned with a aftermarket tuner 88 key cycles ago” when I got it back after warranty work. I was up front with them and just paid it out of pocket for what I needed.