Anyone looking for a Bronco?

[Ruger]

And that's fine and all--certainly no disrespect to anyone that changes their own oil, but...the vast majority of people do not change their own oil and the location of and MOC of the drain plug probably isn't going to come into play when selecting a new vehicle.

Probably not in my case, and I bet I'm not alone.

One of the criteria for military equipment is maintainability (AKA, repairability, serviceability) because it has a great deal to do with readiness and the life-cycle cost of the equipment whether it's a HUMVEE, MRAP, APC, tank, fighter jet, etc. That's my background by virtue of 36 years of career civilian service with the Army - 26 of which was in the Acquisition Corps. Based on that experience, I am convinced that the DoD didn't have it wrong.

BTW, I did not say or imply that canister oil filters were new. I even mentioned that my daughter's Toyota Tacoma has a canister oil filter system. I provided that information to clarify that the 2.3L EB and 2.7L EB engines have different oil filter set-ups.

 

[Ruger]

Only the rear engine undershield needs to be removed for access to the oil filter and drain plug on the Bronco 2.3. The video provided clearly shows the guy unscrewing the filter from underneath, they used a camera shot from the wheel well for clarity.

Since when did SVT have anything to do with serviceability on Gen 1 Raptors? The same 6.2 and 6R80 were used in non-Raptor F-150 models, there is no difference. BTW, SVT = Ford Performance. It was a name change.

Yes, that's what the video shows - with the vehicle up on a lift. As I pointed out in a previous post, most home mechanics do not have a lift in their garage. Maybe it's possible to get to the filter without removing the front tire, but honest to God I couldn't put a hand on the filter when examining the Bronco 2.3L EB first-hand on the showroom floor. I could barely even see the edge of filter peeking out from behind the wheel well liner.

Since when did SVT have anything to do with serviceability on GEN1 Raptors? I didn't make that up, Ford did. It was part of Ford's advertising hype for the 2011 6.2L SVT Raptor. Ford marketed the Raptor as a true off-road production vehicle, and as I recall some of the features were a fuse box that was right up front in the engine compartment and easy to access, enough space at the front of the engine to change the serpentine belt without access issues, a full-sized spare tire on a cast alloy wheel that was identical to those on the ground, etc.

 

[Raptor911]

Be careful when buying a Bronco or Ranger. The 2.3L EcoBoost engine in the Ranger (and almost certainly also in the Bronco base model) is poorly designed to accommodate normal scheduled maintenance. The oil filter is not accessible from the hood or from under the vehicle. To change the oil filter, you must remove the front driver's-side tire and the wheel well liner. No kidding.

The 2.7L EB engine in the up-priced Bronco models has a canister oil filter that is accessible under the hood. This is not a steel can spin-on filter, it is a bare-naked filter element that lives under a filter cover. It's kind of old school, but the Toyota Tacoma has the same kind of filter setup. The odd thing about the 2.7L EB (and this might also be so for the 2.3L EB) on the Bronco is that the oil drain plug is PLASTIC, and the seal is an O-ring rather than a copper crush washer. It won't be reusable for long, and at least one source says to replace it with every oil change.

Just FYI.

the 3.5 up until Feb 26 of 2018 also used a plastic oil drain plug and you don't need to replace it at every oil change. My wife's 2018 Lariat has a plastic oil drain plug and I have changed the oil since new and have never replaced the plastic oil drain valve.

BTW .. I am beta testing a fumoto plastic oil drain valve on my wife's Lariat for the last 5k and it works like a charm.

 

[jamanrr]

Yes, that's what the video shows - with the vehicle up on a lift. As I pointed out in a previous post, most home mechanics do not have a lift in their garage. Maybe it's possible to get to the filter without removing the front tire, but honest to God I couldn't put a hand on the filter when examining the Bronco 2.3L EB first-hand on the showroom floor. I could barely even see the edge of filter peeking out from behind the wheel well liner.

Since when did SVT have anything to do with serviceability on GEN1 Raptors? I didn't make that up, Ford did. It was part of Ford's advertising hype for the 2011 6.2L SVT Raptor. Ford marketed the Raptor as a true off-road production vehicle, and as I recall some of the features were a fuse box that was right up front in the engine compartment and easy to access, enough space at the front of the engine to change the serpentine belt without access issues, a full-sized spare tire on a cast alloy wheel that was identical to those on the ground, etc.

Yeah, well you have not obviously done either work on a Gen 1 or a Gen 2. As I stated I changed the plugs on my 2011 Gen 1 Raptor and the 6.2 liter Boss motor which has 2 plugs per cylinder. I went from underneth the truck to in between the front wheel to get to them in order to remove them. As stated the ability to get to the oil filter is not an issue as long as you have the proper tools to perform the task. Just because you could not get your hand on the oil filter with the splash shield in place means nothing. I am sure most people will just get the works package which does all the work for them.

 

[Ruger]

Yeah, well you have not obviously done either work on a Gen 1 or a Gen 2. As I stated I changed the plugs on my 2011 Gen 1 Raptor and the 6.2 liter Boss motor which has 2 plugs per cylinder. I went from underneth the truck to in between the front wheel to get to them in order to remove them. As stated the ability to get to the oil filter is not an issue as long as you have the proper tools to perform the task. Just because you could not get your hand on the oil filter with the splash shield in place means nothing. I am sure most people will just get the works package which does all the work for them.

Nice try, but a whiff. I am the original owner of a 2011 GEN1, I changed the oil at 1,000 miles and have changed the oil every time thereafter at 6,000 mile intervals. No one but me has changed the oil on my raptor. Obviously your "obviously" is obvious only to you. Your attempt to discredit me rather than the points I have made is an adolescent-level attempt at Tu quoque.

From Wikipedia:
Tu quoque (Latin Tū quoque, for "you also"), is a discussion technique that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by attacking the opponent's own personal behavior and actions as being inconsistent with their argument, therefore accusing hypocrisy. This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack. "Whataboutism" is one particularly well known instance of this technique.

Now then, coming full circle to the original thread, why would anyone buy a 2.3L EB Bronco rather than the 2.7L model when you get 40 more horses and 90 more ft-lbs with the larger motor AND it's evidently easier to work on?

 

[jamanrr]

Nice try, but a whiff. I am the original owner of a 2011 GEN1, I changed the oil at 1,000 miles and have changed the oil every time thereafter at 6,000 mile intervals. No one but me has changed the oil on my raptor. Obviously your "obviously" is obvious only to you. Your attempt to discredit me rather than the points I have made is an adolescent-level attempt at Tu quoque.

From Wikipedia:
Tu quoque (Latin Tū quoque, for "you also"), is a discussion technique that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by attacking the opponent's own personal behavior and actions as being inconsistent with their argument, therefore accusing hypocrisy. This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack. "Whataboutism" is one particularly well known instance of this technique.

Now then, coming full circle to the original thread, why would anyone buy a 2.3L EB Bronco rather than the 2.7L model when you get 40 more horses and 90 more ft-lbs with the larger motor AND it's evidently easier to work on?

The 2.3 liter makes around as much power and returns 2-4 mpg more on a regular basis. My wife's Explorer returns 24-28 mpg and smokes almost all SUVs in its class with the exception of 392 Durango's which iirc probably get around 13-15 mpg. If you don't like 4 cylinders that is up to you. After having owned 100s of them in various turbo forms. I can tell you nothing will perform and get gas mileage as a 4 cylinder turbo. The only engines that out perform them are straight 6s which Dodge will be switching to from the Hemi's. Nissan of old had the SR20DET and the RB26DETT and both of them are gold standards as to what engines can and should be.

 

[Ruger]

The 2.3 liter makes around as much power and returns 2-4 mpg more on a regular basis.

Wrong again.

From the Ford web site:
- Bronco 2.3L: 270 hp, 310 ft-lbs
- Bronco 2.7L: 310 hp, 400 ft-lbs

And the Ford web site says that EPA fuel economy figures are not yet available.

 

[jamanrr]

Wrong again.

From the Ford web site:
- Bronco 2.3L: 270 hp, 310 ft-lbs
- Bronco 2.7L: 310 hp, 400 ft-lbs

And the Ford web site says that EPA fuel economy figures are not yet available.

Have you seen them on lots or looked at them Ford has window stickers for them. I assure you I have looked at both the v6 and the 4 cylinder and the information is correct. I do not know why Ford de tunes the motor in the Bronco? In the Focus RS it makes 360 HP and in the Explorer it makes 300 HP. It can make 400HP reliably but then they have people springing for the v6 thinking it is just better because it is a v6. You have a Gen 1 and I had a Gen 1 which I have a Gen 2 now. I can tell you the Gen 2 with the v6 does everything better than the Gen 1. The only good thing about the Gen 1 was the exhaust sound and some additional torque down low. Take that away and you have a big slow gas guzzler.

 

[Ruger]

Have you seen them on lots or looked at them Ford has window stickers for them. I assure you I have looked at both the v6 and the 4 cylinder and the information is correct. I do not know why Ford de tunes the motor in the Bronco? In the Focus RS it makes 360 HP and in the Explorer it makes 300 HP. It can make 400HP reliably but then they have people springing for the v6 thinking it is just better because it is a v6. You have a Gen 1 and I had a Gen 1 which I have a Gen 2 now. I can tell you the Gen 2 with the v6 does everything better than the Gen 1. The only good thing about the Gen 1 was the exhaust sound and some additional torque down low. Take that away and you have a big slow gas guzzler.

Screen captured from www.ford.com:

Engine​

Engine Specifications
	2.3L EcoBoost®	2.7L EcoBoost®
Engine type	2.3L Ti-VCT GTDI I-4	2.7L Ti-VCT GTDI V-6
Drive type	4x4	4x4
Exhaust	Single	Single
Transmission type	7-Speed Manual/10-Speed Automatic	10-Speed Automatic
Horsepower (projected)	270	310
Torque (projected)	310	400
Compression ratio	10.0:1	10.0:1
Valve lifters	Direct Acting Mechanical Buckets	Roller Finger Follower
Engine block material	Aluminum	Compacted Graphite Iron (CGI)
Cylinder head material	Aluminum	Aluminum
Induction system	Turbocharged	Turbocharged
Fuel delivery	Direct injection	Ported Fuel/Direct injection (PFDI)
Fuel (minimum)	Regular unleaded	Regular unleaded
EPA-Estimated Ratings Four Wheel Drive (Actual mileage will vary)	Vehicle not rated at time of release	Vehicle not rated at time of release

 

[jamanrr]

Wow, I just looked up the window stickers on the 2.7 liter v6 vs the 2.3 liter 4 cylinder

the following is on Ford's window stickers

2.3 liter combined mpg 21 yearly avg fuel spend $1950
2.7 liter combined mpg 17 yearly avg fuel spend $4500

that is around half the savings for only 10 percent bump in performance. I would buy a tune out of the box have an even hotter 4 banger and smoke the v6s then laugh at them for buying em.