2018 New motor recommendations

[Old-Raptor-guy]

The sump of the oil pan is at the rear as it should be, but the pickup tube inlet is at the front of that sump area such that the (tuned especially) hard launch from stopped or even low first gear speed, it can uncover the pickup for some small amount of time to allow a gulp of air that WILL show up as a dip in data logs that include oil pressure. I was a huge skeptic initially until I started monitoring oil pressure in my data. It’s a FACT that it happens and the more often you like to “punch it” from low speed the greater the risk to the rod bearings. A forum member spun a bearing not long after some mods because he was having so much fun poking it with the new power There were no other issues noted in the data OTHER than the consistent oil pressure dip. I also have lots of data that plainly shows it until I started running a 1/2 qt over full. It doesn’t matter to me if anyone believes it, but they should.

Holy shit, take a deep ******* breath. No one including me called you a liar. I asked what about just having a tune caused the ingestion of air.
You in fact prove with your data that the tune is not the cause per-se.
The tune allows a harder launch which causes more G force which causes the oil to slosh rearward at a more violent rate thus inducing air ingestion into the oil pump.
With how in run my Raptor in the desert I have wondered about oil slosh and may start running a little extra oil per your experience.

Your suggestion in that the tune causes the engine failure is in fact not 100% true. To implie the tune was the cause would implied that once tuned engine failure was unavoidable, which is only 1/2 the story. You can tune, not drive like a drunk, retarded 14 year old and not necessarily damage your engine........

We will talk more about lubricant temps tomorrow......
You are not wrong on that, but you are not correct either........

 

[full-race geoff]

The HO uses a 4340 forged crank and upgraded pistons with lower compression.

I know the gen 2 HO pistons are lower compression - yes. But be aware gen 3 are all the same and has the high compression just like Gen 2 f150 non HO

Also the gen2 HO cranks seem to break. Gen 3 cranks do not fail and are a cost effective direct fit to Gen 2

You have an HO, but if you want to loose 75HP and 40lbft torque use a non-HO.

Hmmm that has not been my experience. maybe if you use non HO downpipes and exhaust that would be true?

Speaking from what I’ve seen, the non HO gen 2 engines can make more power than HO due to higher compression ratio

Lastly - I don’t belive there is an HO or non HO 3.5 for the gen3, as far as I can tell all gen3 3.5L are the same spec

 

[Old-Raptor-guy]

I know the gen 2 HO pistons are lower compression - yes. But be aware gen 3 are all the same and has the high compression just like Gen 2 f150 non HO

Also the gen2 HO cranks seem to break. Gen 3 cranks do not fail and are a cost effective direct fit to Gen 2


Hmmm that has not been my experience. maybe if you use non HO downpipes and exhaust that would be true?

Speaking from what I’ve seen, the non HO gen 2 engines can make more power than HO due to higher compression ratio

Lastly - I don’t belive there is an HO or non HO 3.5 for the gen3, as far as I can tell all gen3 3.5L are the same spec

From the factory the HO is rated 70 more HP and 40 more ftlbs of torque in a GEN 2 Hence the HO name.

2021+ the base 3.5 got a 25 hp and 30 ftlbs of torque up grade. To 400 hp 500 ftlbs

2021 + HO is a carry over from 2017+ HO. Rated at 450 and 510

The crankshaft is some how different as the part # is different for engines built before 10/12/20 and engines built after that date.

If you are building an engine then yea, pick and chose the parts you like. But I think the OP asked if he could just drop a stock non-HO into his truck. At least that is how I took his question.

 

[TwizzleStix]

Holy shit, take a deep ******* breath. No one including me called you a liar. I asked what about just having a tune caused the ingestion of air.
You in fact prove with your data that the tune is not the cause per-se.
The tune allows a harder launch which causes more G force which causes the oil to slosh rearward at a more violent rate thus inducing air ingestion into the oil pump.
With how in run my Raptor in the desert I have wondered about oil slosh and may start running a little extra oil per your experience.

Your suggestion in that the tune causes the engine failure is in fact not 100% true. To implie the tune was the cause would implied that once tuned engine failure was unavoidable, which is only 1/2 the story. You can tune, not drive like a drunk, retarded 14 year old and not necessarily damage your engine........

We will talk more about lubricant temps tomorrow......
You are not wrong on that, but you are not correct either........

Yeah I never said the tune “caused” anything. I didn’t suggest it either. I mentioned the issue was more pronounced or indeed “worse” with a tune. I didn’t explain the basics of the how the oil reacts to the physics of longitudinal acceleration. The problem is with the location of the oil pickup. I suppose I’m still making assumptions about the reader of my posts such that I don’t need to explain in minute detail. Of course I’m wrong about that. I’ll try to just remain silent going forward. There’s nothing to be gained by continuing to go into the details of basic physics and fluid dynamics. I’m just confusing the issues.

 

[Old-Raptor-guy]

 

[Old-Raptor-guy]

Yeah I never said the tune “caused” anything. I didn’t suggest it either. I mentioned the issue was more pronounced or indeed “worse” with a tune. I didn’t explain the basics of the how the oil reacts to the physics of longitudinal acceleration. The problem is with the location of the oil pickup. I suppose I’m still making assumptions about the reader of my posts such that I don’t need to explain in minute detail. Of course I’m wrong about that. I’ll try to just remain silent going forward. There’s nothing to be gained by continuing to go into the details of basic physics and fluid dynamics. I’m just confusing the issues.

No you are not confusing the issues. All I asked was what about the tune made it more likely to happen. "Harder launch uncovers the oil pickup easier" is all I needed.

 

[FordTechOne]

I know the gen 2 HO pistons are lower compression - yes. But be aware gen 3 are all the same and has the high compression just like Gen 2 f150 non HO

Yes. But this discussion is on a 2018 Gen 2.

Also the gen2 HO cranks seem to break. Gen 3 cranks do not fail and are a cost effective direct fit to Gen 2

“Seem to break”? I’ve never seen a single one. Crankshafts do not just “break” for no reason. The HO engines have the same crank as the Ford GT.

 

[thatJeepguy]

Yeah I never said the tune “caused” anything. I didn’t suggest it either. I mentioned the issue was more pronounced or indeed “worse” with a tune. I didn’t explain the basics of the how the oil reacts to the physics of longitudinal acceleration. The problem is with the location of the oil pickup. I suppose I’m still making assumptions about the reader of my posts such that I don’t need to explain in minute detail. Of course I’m wrong about that. I’ll try to just remain silent going forward. There’s nothing to be gained by continuing to go into the details of basic physics and fluid dynamics. I’m just confusing the issues.

Are you changing your own oil? If so how often and what are you using?

 

[full-race geoff]

Yes. But this discussion is on a 2018 Gen 2.

I’m not sure if the commentary is because you think I’m being argumentative - that is not my intention. my point is responding to the statement a non HO gen 2 will not work in an HO application. without any technical reasoning, I don’t see why this would be the case.

“Seem to break”? I’ve never seen a single one. Crankshafts do not just “break” for no reason. The HO engines have the same crank as the Ford GT.

Again no intention to discredit you. Gen2 raptors are having crankshaft failures, it’s something I’ve seen on this forum a number of times and @GooseTuned has seen on some of his customer’s gen 2

 

[GooseTuned]

There have been several that have broke, even on stock tunes.

Most higher mileage trucks