Why wouldn't Ford put 3.5 EcoBoost in Raptors?

[matrix243]

Alot of people feel the 6.2 to be sluggish, but thats misleading. The throttle delays ford put in for a reason, which makes it feel like the motors not responding.

 

[wanderfalk]

The 5.0 v8 and the eco 3.5 in the real world get about 15mgp. My raptor gets 13.5 period. If you stuck the 3.5 or 5.0 in my truck with big wheels and my lead foot what am i going to get 13.501. i am good to go with the 6.2 . I do not dislike turbos in fact if you can more speed and mpgs but i just do not see it with that motor.

 

[Reptar]

Alot of people feel the 6.2 to be sluggish, but thats misleading. The throttle delays ford put in for a reason, which makes it feel like the motors not responding.

lmao

yes ford designed the throttle delay to make the 6.2 feel sluggish but really it's an ANIMAL, but they just don't think anyone can handle that raw power!

lol you've got it a little flipped there. They do filter out any quick jabs of the throttle and smooth out your right foot (better for gas mileage, crappy for those who like to be in full control of their throttle body used to cable throttles). The throttle is actually programmed non-linearly, so it takes very little throttle input to open the throttle body much more down low, and at higher speeds the throttle is numbed down. So from a stop 25% pedal travel may equate to 50% throttle position. All it takes is 1 button push to put it into ORM where the throttle mapping is linear and acts like a cable-operated throttle would, and you really see just how dead the throttle feels because 25% pedal travel is 25% throttle position.

That's how a tune tweak can make the truck feel even peppier and faster, it can remap that throttle position curve, so 25% throttle position may equate to now 60% throttle position instead of 50%. Feels like you gained a snappier acceleration, and really all that tune tweak did is open the throttle further for you and nothing else. Same is accomplished by stomping the pedal further/faster lol.

Now yes there's other things that tunes do with timing, fuel maps, etc., but adjusting the throttle mapping is frequently one of those things too, and it's not gaining you power, just makes it feel like you are. Just like on the older vehicles putting a softer spring on the throttle made it feel like you had better throttle response, and really it was just easier to push the pedal.

 

[Wilson]

Keep the gas supply strong use ethanol I use e-30 myself! I never had a sport's car growing up had a pickup gmc 350 lots of power to spin tires but 4 speed low gears just not get up and go but the thing could melt a tire. I drove a race car a friends in high school that was fun you put the pedal down it threw you into the seat that is why I like my raptor. For me it's not about having the fastest truck it's about having a well rounded pickup and I feel I got that with the raptor. But I will say this stock I thought the truck moved I put headers on with the cai and wow went back a week later and put the tune in wow again. IMO the mods are worth it and do use ethanol I recomend e-15 for you that don't have the mod's if you do your warranty is supposedly no good anyhow. get on it support America!!!

 

[ISFast]

http://www.fordraptorforum.com/f52/...kers-diff-covers-front-rear-20820/index4.html


Ok so for an update to the 5.13s put in with the 37 tires....


Got a chance to run a eco boost Screw FX4 F-150 that is running raptor OEM tires, leveling kit maybe minor lift, tuner by 5star, intake, 4.10 gears, and an exhaust cutout as well. This is my buddies truck and really wanted a raptor but couldn't get him talked into it.

So for my truck to make it fair: Scab, no aftermarket intake just a K&N drop in filter, exhaust cutout, 5star tune, 5.13s, 37 Nitto Mud grapplers on DS methods (122+ lbs per), and a 80 lbs front bumper with boatecs on top perch.

Now this is a closed road just FYI for people who want to preach:

Did a single run from a dead stop to 80+ mph.... Looked down after we let off and it was 85 at that time. Both trucks had the A/C on and a single window down, Both tunes at 87 performance, all nannies on with 2wd open rear only, tanks roughly same amount as far as Gallons in the tanks.

So here is how it went:
When we both came off the line mine was almost a full truck a head. His front bumper was almost to my rear bumper. At 40 mph we were almost dead even and by the time we hit 80-90 ish He was about his truck length a head and now my front bumper was even with his rear axle.

Just wanted to inform people about how a couple mods and different strokes for people do. He had lighter tires, intake, no bumper, and not as high or wide as my raptor. I had a shorter cab and lower gears.

Was he surprised.... SHIT he was PISSed his EB didn't just chew me up especially with the 37s. This is a pretty good test of how a set of gears really gets these monsters moving.

 

[wanderfalk]

http://www.fordraptorforum.com/f52/...kers-diff-covers-front-rear-20820/index4.html


Ok so for an update to the 5.13s put in with the 37 tires....


Got a chance to run a eco boost Screw FX4 F-150 that is running raptor OEM tires, leveling kit maybe minor lift, tuner by 5star, intake, 4.10 gears, and an exhaust cutout as well. This is my buddies truck and really wanted a raptor but couldn't get him talked into it.

So for my truck to make it fair: Scab, no aftermarket intake just a K&N drop in filter, exhaust cutout, 5star tune, 5.13s, 37 Nitto Mud grapplers on DS methods (122+ lbs per), and a 80 lbs front bumper with boatecs on top perch.

Now this is a closed road just FYI for people who want to preach:

Did a single run from a dead stop to 80+ mph.... Looked down after we let off and it was 85 at that time. Both trucks had the A/C on and a single window down, Both tunes at 87 performance, all nannies on with 2wd open rear only, tanks roughly same amount as far as Gallons in the tanks.

So here is how it went:
When we both came off the line mine was almost a full truck a head. His front bumper was almost to my rear bumper. At 40 mph we were almost dead even and by the time we hit 80-90 ish He was about his truck length a head and now my front bumper was even with his rear axle.

Just wanted to inform people about how a couple mods and different strokes for people do. He had lighter tires, intake, no bumper, and not as high or wide as my raptor. I had a shorter cab and lower gears.

Was he surprised.... SHIT he was PISSed his EB didn't just chew me up especially with the 37s. This is a pretty good test of how a set of gears really gets these monsters moving.

what was the weight of those two trucks ?

 

[matrix243]

lmao

yes ford designed the throttle delay to make the 6.2 feel sluggish but really it's an ANIMAL, but they just don't think anyone can handle that raw power!

lol you've got it a little flipped there. They do filter out any quick jabs of the throttle and smooth out your right foot (better for gas mileage, crappy for those who like to be in full control of their throttle body used to cable throttles). The throttle is actually programmed non-linearly, so it takes very little throttle input to open the throttle body much more down low, and at higher speeds the throttle is numbed down. So from a stop 25% pedal travel may equate to 50% throttle position. All it takes is 1 button push to put it into ORM where the throttle mapping is linear and acts like a cable-operated throttle would, and you really see just how dead the throttle feels because 25% pedal travel is 25% throttle position.

That's how a tune tweak can make the truck feel even peppier and faster, it can remap that throttle position curve, so 25% throttle position may equate to now 60% throttle position instead of 50%. Feels like you gained a snappier acceleration, and really all that tune tweak did is open the throttle further for you and nothing else. Same is accomplished by stomping the pedal further/faster lol.

Now yes there's other things that tunes do with timing, fuel maps, etc., but adjusting the throttle mapping is frequently one of those things too, and it's not gaining you power, just makes it feel like you are. Just like on the older vehicles putting a softer spring on the throttle made it feel like you had better throttle response, and really it was just easier to push the pedal.

Oh, you agree then. It sounded like you were saying the 6.2 is a dog.

 

[mudblood]

I drove them at a Ford Drive event back in 2010 actually, and all the 2011's were pre-production models. They had them all as equally equipped as possible for an even comparison between the 3.7 V6, 5.0 V8, 3.5 V6, and 6.2 V8. They also had competitor trucks there (tundra, ram, titan, 1500) to compare. They had an 1/8th mile track set up with a tree and time board. I'm a drag racer at heart, so I went in that line umpteen times LOL. My times were within a tenth each time for the 6.2 and 3.5. The 3.7 was a dog. The 5.0 felt better than the old 5.4 but still nothing to write home about. The 6.2 was faster out of the hole, but the 3.5 once 60 feet out with the turbos spooled had a harder pull, and by the 1/8th they were always near tied. They had a score board with the fastest times of the day, and out of the dozen times listed, a half were 6.2 and a half were 3.5, they were that close in the 1/8th for similarily equipped trucks (same cabs, rears, etc.).

They also had a towing circuit, you could tow 6500 lbs with a 6.2 or a 3.5. Now I'm always towing my ~7,000 lb trailer + race truck around so it was a great comparison. The 6.2 towed a lot better than my old 5.4 (even supercharged 5.4), but the power curve of the 3.5 I liked for towing even better. And I liked the feel of EPAS better than the hydraulic steering of the 6.2.

All personal preference. As for the exhaust sound, I have a 2000 HD just shy of 800 rwhp that I hop in when I want to make some noise and go fast. For a DD, I'm fine with a quiet exhaust. I wouldn't put a noisey catback on a 3.5 because I"m not crazy about the 3.5 sound, but the turbo spool and BOVs are a nice trade off if I can't have a V8 tone.

And no, I didn't like the 3.5 enough to get a lower model non-raptor. An FX-4 does nothing to tickle my fancy, a Raptor makes me grin every time I turn the key for the truck as a whole, not the engine itself. I wanted a Raptor no matter what engine came in it, but if I had the choice, it would have been the 3.5L.




I'm actually more interested to see the potential of that thing than the slightly revised 5.0. Guys have already gone 7's in street driven 5.0 Mustangs, so the new updated 5.0 it'll be interesting to see what it does bone stock compared to the older 5.0 bone stock, but it isn't going to be a big surprise with what it can do once modded. The new 4 banger ecoboost stang on the other hand, I can't wait to see what that does stock with ~300 hp, then once modded. Certainly won't beat an equally modded 5.0 stang, but it'll be impressive for being a 4 banger, and much lighter as well.





I've put both on the scales, it's not 1,500 lbs difference. Explorer Sports are 5,200 lbs with driver and go 14.5 stock, and with an intake, tune, and down pipe they've gone 12.8's. My Raptor was 6,200 lbs with driver at the track and I've gone a best of 14.9 with a catback. With a tune and intake I'm expecting maybe 14.7s. If it were a 3.5 EB, I'd have no doubts it'd be capable of lower 14's if not a high 13. Especially with the general (and relatively accurate) rule of thumb of every 100 lbs = 1/10th, so 1k lbs heavier than the Sport = 1 second slower, that puts 12.8 to 13.8 with just 3 bolt on mods. No way is my 6.2 going 13.8's without a twin screw blower or a big *** shot of nitrous!


Yes once FULLY modded, the 5.0 has a ton of potential, and the 6.2 could make retarded power with a blower, or bored/stroked with ported heads and cams, but that stuff is STUPID money lol. $5-10k easy even for a blower/full exhaust/tune/fuel/supporting mods. An intake, tune, and catback don't gain you much hp with a 6.2. An intake, tune, and downpipe gain a significant chunk of power with the 3.5 for all of what $2k.




PS....I find it funny that half the arguements against the 3.5 ecoboost are just calling it an ecoturd or girly v6 or wimpy exhaust lol. Pretty lame arguement points to make rather than things like mod potential, tow capability, power ratings, fuel economy, etc. The 3.5 supporters dont' call the 6.2 a six point **** instead of six point two lol. The cheesy names to try and bash the 3.5 just make the 6.2 owners sound a little jelly lol

Good point. Finding excuses (weight/wheel size/ etc.) or simply calling it "names" are silly childish exercises in denial. They are different vehicles however for a six banger that gets pretty good gas mileage and very impressive power for what it is.............well it is a damn smart move by Ford. Yes, it's a six cylinder and it will sound like a six cylinder but I have seen plenty of six bangers put pumped up mustangs and vettes to shame at the drag strip. Just because it's different don't be hatin..........admire Ford for pushing the envelope and planning for the future. Would I trade for an ecoboost........................hell no. But I am an old fart that loves the big V8.

 

[Cleave]

lmao

yes ford designed the throttle delay to make the 6.2 feel sluggish but really it's an ANIMAL, but they just don't think anyone can handle that raw power!

lol you've got it a little flipped there. They do filter out any quick jabs of the throttle and smooth out your right foot (better for gas mileage, crappy for those who like to be in full control of their throttle body used to cable throttles). The throttle is actually programmed non-linearly, so it takes very little throttle input to open the throttle body much more down low, and at higher speeds the throttle is numbed down. So from a stop 25% pedal travel may equate to 50% throttle position. All it takes is 1 button push to put it into ORM where the throttle mapping is linear and acts like a cable-operated throttle would, and you really see just how dead the throttle feels because 25% pedal travel is 25% throttle position.

That's how a tune tweak can make the truck feel even peppier and faster, it can remap that throttle position curve, so 25% throttle position may equate to now 60% throttle position instead of 50%. Feels like you gained a snappier acceleration, and really all that tune tweak did is open the throttle further for you and nothing else. Same is accomplished by stomping the pedal further/faster lol.

Now yes there's other things that tunes do with timing, fuel maps, etc., but adjusting the throttle mapping is frequently one of those things too, and it's not gaining you power, just makes it feel like you are. Just like on the older vehicles putting a softer spring on the throttle made it feel like you had better throttle response, and really it was just easier to push the pedal.

This is false, the throttle on the raptor is the reverse of that, at 100% throttle below 2,500 rpm the throttle only opens 20-30%, by 3,500 rpm the throttle only opens to 50% then ramps up quickly to 100% at full throttle by 4,000 rpm, this is done to protect the engine more than anything else, at low rpms when you go full throttle it puts a huge amount of load on the engine, limiting the air allowed into the engine at these rpms reduces the load and improves engine life, the sluggishness in offroad mode you feel is the torque converter clutch locking up more at lower rpms, resulting in less torque multiplication and less torque getting put down to the ground, this is why the truck will get amazing fuel mileage in offroad mode at lower speeds, and is also the reason they say to not use offroad mode on the street, it puts a lot of stress on the power train to have the torque converter locked up at such low speeds

 

[mudblood]

I traded a ecoboost for my 6.2 raptor, best decision I ever made!!

---------- Post added at 07:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------



Right!! MPG was the last thing on my mind when I got mine....

ME 2................NOW lets talk about perch mods.................what is a perch mod exactly???