Who’s sold their Gen 1 during this market and hates the decision they made?

[FordTechOne]

Hey you asked I’m just telling you I have never in my life had problems with keys and I have had many problems with fobs and they haven’t been around me that long. I’ll tell you in the 4Runner with the push button start you could only turn the truck off from engine running. You couldn’t get the electronics to stay on from the engine running which was really stupid if you are on a phone call and you want the electronics to stay on but kill the engine. I have had 2 fob’d vehicles and both had problems with them. When engineering something I’d K.I.S.S. and move on. To me it’s a bad fad that has grown into the industry standard that I don’t care for / I don’t want to pay for / I don’t want to waste my time dealing with. And I know it’s not what you are talking about but they really suck on motorcycles. But that’s the market now and would I stop from buying a new vehicle from that no obviously not, but something isn’t just better because it’s new.

I can only speak to the Ford system, which includes an ignition on engine off mode like a traditional key. Those systems that you mention sound poorly designed.

 

[Frogger22]

I can only speak to the Ford system, which includes an ignition on engine off mode like a traditional key. Those systems that you mention sound poorly designed.

Bro it sounds so stupid, but it happened to me a thousand times that I’d get to where I was going and want the Bluetooth to stay on, It grew old quickly. That’s awesome to hear if Ford is better, because between us a Bronco Raptor may be in the cards down the line.

 

[Canuck714]

This is a case of assuming the older design is simpler or more reliable just because it has a mechanical aspect to it. Both systems are simply an input to the BCM.

Push button start is actually simpler and has less failure points. Placing the IA fob in the cup holder accomplishes the same thing as placing a mechanical key in the ignition; the PATS transceiver reads the key. The difference is that with push button start, there is no key blade or lock cylinder to wear out, no ignition switch wiper to wear out, and no key hold in solenoid. So you’re accomplishing the same thing with less moving parts and improved reliability. And of course it’s much more convenient. This is why even some base model vehicles are now with push button start, there are less components.

Smart thieves like the simplicity too... If you are an intelligent thief you dont even need to break a window or need the fob to start the new trucks. Just a laptop and boom...bye bye Raptor.
The key slows them down a smidge..lol

 

[FordTechOne]

Smart thieves like the simplicity too... If you are an intelligent thief you dont even need to break a window or need the fob to start the new trucks. Just a laptop and boom...bye bye Raptor.
The key slows them down a smidge..lol

Not correct. PATS operates the same whether you have a standard ignition or push button start.

On the newer (Gen 2) BCMs, when the truck is locked and armed the BCM monitors the network for the connection of a scan tool. If a scan tool is connected, it activates the perimeter alarm and blocks all programming attempts. Gen 3 has a new Gateway Module that won't even allow a scan tool to connect directly to the vehicle's networks.

When a thief just hops into a vehicle and takes off on seconds, they have a copy of the key.

 

[PTYHRD]

Easier to copy a fob signal than a key? Genuinely asking

 

[Canuck714]

Not correct. PATS operates the same whether you have a standard ignition or push button start.

On the newer (Gen 2) BCMs, when the truck is locked and armed the BCM monitors the network for the connection of a scan tool. If a scan tool is connected, it activates the perimeter alarm and blocks all programming attempts. Gen 3 has a new Gateway Module that won't even allow a scan tool to connect directly to the vehicle's networks.

When a thief just hops into a vehicle and takes off on seconds, they have a copy of the key.

Interesting, cuz that contradicts what Ford and the cops told my buddy that had his 2 day old truck stolen... They dont need the key, just need to be near it.

Keyless entry systems are vulnerable to relay attacks. A relay attack is the use of technology to manipulate the vehicle’s key fob into unlocking and starting the vehicle. Here’s how it works:

1. Two thieves approach a vehicle with hacking devices.
2. Thief #1 stands next to the vehicle with a hacking device.
3. Thief #2 stands up to 50 feet within the vehicle’s key fob with a hacking device.
   • It’s common for thieves to stand outside of a house or another building where the key fob is located. Hacking devices can work within 30-50 feet of a key fob. Some of the more sophisticated hacking devices can work within 300 feet of a key fob.
4. Thief #1’s hacking device receives signals from the vehicle. Next, it relays the signals to thief #2’s hacking device.
5. Thief #2’s hacking device sends the vehicle’s signals to the key fob.
6. The key fob is tricked into thinking that the vehicle is nearby. The key fob sends out signals that allow entry into the vehicle.
7. Thief #2’s device receives the key fob’s signals and then sends them to thief #1’s device.
8. Thief #1’s device unlocks the vehicle and allows the thieves to start the ignition.
9. The thieves get into the vehicle and drive away.

 

[FordTechOne]

Interesting, cuz that contradicts what Ford and the cops told my buddy that had his 2 day old truck stolen... They dont need the key, just need to be near it.

Keyless entry systems are vulnerable to relay attacks. A relay attack is the use of technology to manipulate the vehicle’s key fob into unlocking and starting the vehicle. Here’s how it works:

1. Two thieves approach a vehicle with hacking devices.
2. Thief #1 stands next to the vehicle with a hacking device.
3. Thief #2 stands up to 50 feet within the vehicle’s key fob with a hacking device.
   • It’s common for thieves to stand outside of a house or another building where the key fob is located. Hacking devices can work within 30-50 feet of a key fob. Some of the more sophisticated hacking devices can work within 300 feet of a key fob.
4. Thief #1’s hacking device receives signals from the vehicle. Next, it relays the signals to thief #2’s hacking device.
5. Thief #2’s hacking device sends the vehicle’s signals to the key fob.
6. The key fob is tricked into thinking that the vehicle is nearby. The key fob sends out signals that allow entry into the vehicle.
7. Thief #2’s device receives the key fob’s signals and then sends them to thief #1’s device.
8. Thief #1’s device unlocks the vehicle and allows the thieves to start the ignition.
9. The thieves get into the vehicle and drive away.

Looks like a generic Google search result; every system is different.

The IA and PATS signals are separate systems. You can’t just “relay” a signal from a fob and start the vehicle. The passive key also only transmits in a 3ft radius. If they have these “mystery hacking devices” that close, they’re likely already in your house/garage, at which point they’re going to take your key regardless of the type and steal your vehicle.

 

[PTYHRD]

Loving all this information

 

[Muchmore]

Ford Performance = SVT. Gen 1 started it and Gen 2 built on it and exceeded Gen 1 in every single way.

Some of you Gen 1 owners live in denial.

Come on man, you can't bag on Sasquatch for hosing down a Gen 2 reliability thread with Gen 1 crap and then turn around and do the same

 

[FordTechOne]

Come on man, you can't bag on Sasquatch for hosing down a Gen 2 reliability thread with Gen 1 crap and then turn around and do the same

Sasquatch brought up Gen 2/3, I just called him on it.