GEN 2 Whipple Stage 1 Kit Feedback Thread!

[jmrekieta]

Howdy,

Since Whipple Charged answered my questions regarding his tune and some aftermarket goodies (and gave me some possible HP/TQ gains with each additional mod) I decided to have some fun.

All calculations are based on Toadster’s recent dyno pulls. I rounded to the hundredths place. Rounded up on 0.5 or above. Rounded down on 0.49 or below. BTW I prefer capital letters when crunching numbers. Just in case you are wondering.

WHIPPLE STAGE 1 POWER ADDERS

BASE RAPTOR HP/TQ @ CRANK: 450/510

WHIPPLE DYNO STOCK/W SPD ADAPTERS
HP/TQ: 347.78/399.70

WHIPPLE DYNO ON STAGE 1 (91 OCTANE)
HP/TQ: 410.11/449.49

DRIVETRAIN LOSS:

HP: 347.78/450 = 0.7728 (22.72% LOSS)
TQ: 399.70/510 = 0.7837 (21.63% LOSS)

ADJUSTED CRANK HP/TQ:

HP: 410.11/0.7728 = 530.68
TQ: 449.49/0.7837 = 573.55

ADD 93 PREMIUM:
ADDITIONAL RWHP/TQ: 15-30

ADJUSTED GAINS @ CRANK
HP: 15/0.7728 = 19.41 TO 30/0.7728 = 38.82
TQ: 15/0.7837 = 19.14 TO 30/0.7837 = 38.23

ADD CATTED DOWNPIPES:
ADDITIONAL RWHP/TQ: 10-15

ADJUSTED GAINS @ CRANK
HP: 10/0.7728 = 12.94 TO 15/0.7728 = 19.41
TQ: 10/0.7837 = 12.76 TO 15/.7837 = 19.14

ADD FREE-FLOW CAT-BACK EXHAUST:
ADDITIONAL RWHP/TQ: 5-10

ADJUSTED GAINS @ CRANK
HP: 5/0.7728 = 6.47 TO 10/0.7728 = 12.94
TQ: 5/0.7837 = 6.38 TO 10/0.7837 = 12.76

SUMMARY: ALL 3 (POSSIBLE SYNERGY IGNORED):

POSSIBLE GAINS (93 + DP + CAT-BACK)

RWHP:
MIN = 410.11 + 15 + 10 + 5 = 430.11
MAX = 410.11 + 30 + 15 + 10 = 465.11

ADJUSTED HP @ CRANK

MIN = 430.11/0.7728 = 556.56
MAX = 465.11/0.7728 = 601.85

RWTQ:
MIN = 449.49 + 15 + 10 + 5 = 479.49
MAX = 449.49 + 30 + 15 + 10 = 504.49

ADJUSTED TQ @ CRANK

MIN = 479.49/0.7837 = 611.83
MAX = 504.49/0.7837 = 643.73

ADJUSTED AVERAGE RWHP/TQ:

HP: (430.11 + 465.11)/2 = 447.61
TQ: (479.49 + 504.49)/2 = 491.99

PERCENTAGE GAINS AT THE WHEELS
STOCK/ABOVE (AVG. OF MIN/MAX)

HP: 347.78 TO 447.61 = +100 (+28.75%)
TQ: 399.70 TO 491.99 = + 92 (+23.09%)

ADJUSTED AVERAGE HP/TQ @ CRANK

HP: 447.61/0.7728 = 579.22
TQ: 491.99/0.7837 = 627.78

PERCENTAGE GAINS @ CRANK
STOCK/ABOVE (AVG. OF MIN/MAX)

HP: 450 TO 579.22 = +129 (+28.71%)
TQ: 510 TO 627.78 = +118 (+23.09%)

VERY NICE INDEED!!

I am not a “scientist.”

I do realize there are many factors at play. I’m just prognosticating as to where we might be able to get our trucks with the Whipple Stage 1 and some other bolt-ons.

I enjoy numbers! Thanks!

 

[Whipple Charged]

No boost leak, it ran like a champ with the old tune then did new tune and plugs and it’s a dog.

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------



I tired that but the tuner said file not recognized and that’s when I got with Jeff and he said new tune will be out next week and that’s the same time he can get me the stock tune. I told him get me both. Are you saying the new updated tune from last week is 25hp less?

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------



That’s kinda what I am thinking.

You are correct, my mistake. The old cal does not have the new cal in its priors list, so it doesn't recognize it. I may have new files by end of day today, worst case monday morning.

The tune you have, which 3 people got, due to the shutters not staying open all the time and IC fan speed slowing down, made 25 less HP on the dyno. This was our mistake, we tried to redesign the shutter system to work the way we want it using Ford's template, but it wasn't designed to do as we wanted. The update on monday resolves that issue with new software we had to write and add new logic.

 

[10SpdsOfFury]

Ok cool and I do appreciate all the help you guys are providing.

 

[Toadster]

Howdy,

Since Whipple Charged answered my questions regarding his tune and some aftermarket goodies (and gave me some possible HP/TQ gains with each additional mod) I decided to have some fun.

All calculations are based on Toadster’s recent dyno pulls. I rounded to the hundredths place. Rounded up on 0.5 or above. Rounded down on 0.49 or below. BTW I prefer capital letters when crunching numbers. Just in case you are wondering.

WHIPPLE STAGE 1 POWER ADDERS

BASE RAPTOR HP/TQ @ CRANK: 450/510

WHIPPLE DYNO STOCK/W SPD ADAPTERS
HP/TQ: 347.78/399.70

WHIPPLE DYNO ON STAGE 1 (91 OCTANE)
HP/TQ: 410.11/449.49

DRIVETRAIN LOSS:

HP: 347.78/450 = 0.7728 (22.72% LOSS)
TQ: 399.70/510 = 0.7837 (21.63% LOSS)

ADJUSTED CRANK HP/TQ:

HP: 410.11/0.7728 = 530.68
TQ: 449.49/0.7837 = 573.55

ADD 93 PREMIUM:
ADDITIONAL RWHP/TQ: 15-30

ADJUSTED GAINS @ CRANK
HP: 15/0.7728 = 19.41 TO 30/0.7728 = 38.82
TQ: 15/0.7837 = 19.14 TO 30/0.7837 = 38.23

ADD CATTED DOWNPIPES:
ADDITIONAL RWHP/TQ: 10-15

ADJUSTED GAINS @ CRANK
HP: 10/0.7728 = 12.94 TO 15/0.7728 = 19.41
TQ: 10/0.7837 = 12.76 TO 15/.7837 = 19.14

ADD FREE-FLOW CAT-BACK EXHAUST:
ADDITIONAL RWHP/TQ: 5-10

ADJUSTED GAINS @ CRANK
HP: 5/0.7728 = 6.47 TO 10/0.7728 = 12.94
TQ: 5/0.7837 = 6.38 TO 10/0.7837 = 12.76

SUMMARY: ALL 3 (POSSIBLE SYNERGY IGNORED):

POSSIBLE GAINS (93 + DP + CAT-BACK)

RWHP:
MIN = 410.11 + 15 + 10 + 5 = 430.11
MAX = 410.11 + 30 + 15 + 10 = 465.11

ADJUSTED HP @ CRANK

MIN = 430.11/0.7728 = 556.56
MAX = 465.11/0.7728 = 601.85

RWTQ:
MIN = 449.49 + 15 + 10 + 5 = 479.49
MAX = 449.49 + 30 + 15 + 10 = 504.49

ADJUSTED TQ @ CRANK

MIN = 479.49/0.7837 = 611.83
MAX = 504.49/0.7837 = 643.73

ADJUSTED AVERAGE RWHP/TQ:

HP: (430.11 + 465.11)/2 = 447.61
TQ: (479.49 + 504.49)/2 = 491.99

PERCENTAGE GAINS AT THE WHEELS
STOCK/ABOVE (AVG. OF MIN/MAX)

HP: 347.78 TO 447.61 = +100 (+28.75%)
TQ: 399.70 TO 491.99 = + 92 (+23.09%)

ADJUSTED AVERAGE HP/TQ @ CRANK

HP: 447.61/0.7728 = 579.22
TQ: 491.99/0.7837 = 627.78

PERCENTAGE GAINS @ CRANK
STOCK/ABOVE (AVG. OF MIN/MAX)

HP: 450 TO 579.22 = +129 (+28.71%)
TQ: 510 TO 627.78 = +118 (+23.09%)

VERY NICE INDEED!!

I am not a “scientist.”

I do realize there are many factors at play. I’m just prognosticating as to where we might be able to get our trucks with the Whipple Stage 1 and some other bolt-ons.

I enjoy numbers! Thanks!

I like the way you think!

btw - 1000 posts for me!

 

[Toadster]

FYI - for those of you worrying about an open element CAI

the Whipple CAI isn't really exposed to the elements - notice how the CAI is sealed up by the hood

 

[jikjak]

Im glad the thread is getting back on track, there is a lot of good information in this thread and its great to see the excellent customer support that Whipple is providing. Im glad that I went with their products.

Ive got a couple questions about the stage 1 kit. Whipple's website says it gains 150tq(flywheel) over stock, but on the numbers from Toadster's run, the tq gains are only around 50wtq which equals about 60tq(flywheel). The Hp gains seem to match up with what the website says.
Am i misreading something or could it be that the SPD adaptors are a factor in this? Perhaps the gains from all the mods kind of overlap each other instead of stacking on top of each other? Or is it due to the 91 octane gas used? The Whipple numbers on their website is based on 93 octane.
Just curious about this, either way the gains are still good and perhaps i can do some stock and modded dyno runs as well. However, i doubt that I can do the before and after on the same day.

Secondly, if downpipes were to be added to Whipple stage 1, would it be better to go catless or with high flow cats? As I understand, high flow cats wont throw a CEL, but will catless paired with whipple tune throw a CEL?

 

[Gsteve]

FYI - for those of you worrying about an open element CAI

the Whipple CAI isn't really exposed to the elements - notice how the CAI is sealed up by the hood

Looks nice but I wonder how much power it adds? Seems cai are notorious for not really doing much and causing trouble. That one does look well made tho.

 

[jmrekieta]

Looks nice but I wonder how much power it adds? Seems cai are notorious for not really doing much and causing trouble. That one does look well made tho.

Good question. Though I do hope Whipple (working with ford engineers) would not sell a purely superfluous, sound-generating only intake. I have read many times that the stock intakes are well made and support some tuning. I think the larger airflow only comes in when substantially tuning the vehicle thereby requiring the additional airflow. Or it could be a situation that Whipple believes that the airflow generated by the intake will always be sufficient in all conditions. Unbeknownst to us Whipple may have tested conditions in which the stock might fail to provide adequate flow to optimize the tune. Since they work so closely with the manufacture and the tune is sufficient for OEM reliability this would make sense to me. Set it and forget it type of thing. I have studied this forum sufficiently enough that I cannot remember any type of code being thrown by this particular intake. I believe others have thrown codes.

However, the website says it flows 132% more than stock. If you take that literally it means it flows 2.32 times more than stock. Way overkill I think. Now if you make the mistake that many people do then 132% actually means 32% more than stock. I might be wrong, but this mistake is quite common. For instance, many people believe that doubling flow of any liquid/gas is an increase of 200% which in reality it is just 100%.

That said in my opinion the 32% overstock makes more sense because the boost that the tune generates could require 1/3 more airflow. According to my numeric analysis earlier in this thread the tune makes around 30% more horsepower and torque, so the numbers are in line with the additional intake flow.

Regardless, I do hope that the intake serves a needed purpose. But I’m not an engineer either.

---------- Post added at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

Im glad the thread is getting back on track, there is a lot of good information in this thread and its great to see the excellent customer support that Whipple is providing. Im glad that I went with their products.

Ive got a couple questions about the stage 1 kit. Whipple's website says it gains 150tq(flywheel) over stock, but on the numbers from Toadster's run, the tq gains are only around 50wtq which equals about 60tq(flywheel). The Hp gains seem to match up with what the website says.
Am i misreading something or could it be that the SPD adaptors are a factor in this? Perhaps the gains from all the mods kind of overlap each other instead of stacking on top of each other? Or is it due to the 91 octane gas used? The Whipple numbers on their website is based on 93 octane.
Just curious about this, either way the gains are still good and perhaps i can do some stock and modded dyno runs as well. However, i doubt that I can do the before and after on the same day.

Secondly, if downpipes were to be added to Whipple stage 1, would it be better to go catless or with high flow cats? As I understand, high flow cats wont throw a CEL, but will catless paired with whipple tune throw a CEL?

I just checked their website. The dyno results provided were with 91 octane purchased at a Chevron. The ambient air temperature was 93.

From what I read it’s never a great idea to install DP with no cats. From what I remember many people have done this. A code appears very often in this situation. Sometimes down pipes that do have cats also throw codes.

People have used O2 extenders to remedy this with varied success. Both with cats and no cats on the DP’s.

But in terms of the torque gains as reported on the website as compared to the numbers I ran earlier. I would like an answer for this as well. Things just don’t add up for the torque. And I can’t figure out how they could get those numbers.

 

[k-rub]

Secondly, if downpipes were to be added to Whipple stage 1, would it be better to go catless or with high flow cats? As I understand, high flow cats wont throw a CEL, but will catless paired with whipple tune throw a CEL?

I can't speak for other downpipes but Stainless Works catted downpipes trigger codes. O2 extenders supposedly get rid of the code but IMO it will be super hard to fit extenders on the pipes. I bought some and they wouldn't fit. The only thing I didn't try is taking the downpipes off and then putting on the extenders. But that's a huge PITA.

Supposedly Kooks SPD catted downpipes don't throw codes. I don't know for sure.

 

[jmrekieta]

I can't speak for other downpipes but Stainless Works catted downpipes trigger codes. O2 extenders supposedly get rid of the code but IMO it will be super hard to fit extenders on the pipes. I bought some and they wouldn't fit. The only thing I didn't try is taking the downpipes off and then putting on the extenders. But that's a huge PITA.

Supposedly Kooks SPD catted downpipes don't throw codes. I don't know for sure.

Supposedly the SPD catted down pipes don’t throw codes either. But they have been of little mention on this forum after their release. Texas Motorworks told me about these when I visited a few months ago.

I do know that the Kooks catted down pipes are over $1000 I believe. The last time I looked at the SPD catted down pipes they were $750 or so. The cost difference probably do to a lower grade steel but not sure. I live in Dallas, so rust is not really a big issue for me. I might have to be the test mule on the SPD catted downpipes. No one else has done it that I know of. If I do it, it will be least a couple months though.