Wavy door panels

[BIG TIME BALLER]

Easy... take it down a notch.

I own a Raptor not an M3. Clearly I have made a decision on which I want to own right now.

My post is just to support others that have questioned the quality vs cost component of owning a Raptor. I did not say it was a POS... geez.

Because the Raptor is based on the $30k F150... perhaps we are really upset with Fords quality and refinement in general... in this case compared to initial quality of BMWs base vehicles.

 

[jaz13]

Because the Raptor is based on the $30k F150... perhaps we are really upset with Fords quality and refinement in general... in this case compared to initial quality of BMWs base vehicles.

Only idiots compare Ford's to BMWs. If a person wants a BMW, they should buy a BMW.

That said, BMW's quality is shit. My wife's M3 has far more orange peel than my Raptor.....and oil changes cost $200.....and the engines grenade at an alarming rate.

But after putting the top down and listening to that V8 roar, all is forgotten.

 

[mezger]

From 100 yards away I couldn’t tell ya whether I was looking @ a BMW M3 or a base 320i, BUT you sure as shit know you’re looking @ a raptor vs. a standard truck from 100 yds‍

I'm gonna disagree with this statement. IMO both are similar in how they look a lot different from base. Both look substantially more badass than the pedestrian variants.

Bigger tires, fender flares, different hood & fascia, different stance, both have different steering wheels and seats (e90M gets the win on the seat front), and the M3 has substantially more area dedicated to functional heat exchangers. Both recently went from a wicked sounding V8 to a poop sounding FI 6 cyls, and for both the 6 cyl gives up throttle response for substantially more power.

Underneath, both have very substantial upgrades to almost everything that counts.

Which is why... I own both, though my M is of the V8 variety.

WRT the wavy doors, I can see both sides. Didn't stop me from buying the Rap, hell it didn't really bother me that much. But after a lot of experience buying used enthusiast vehicles, even though I was buying new I immediately noticed the effect the first time I started looking over Gen2 raps because it's one of several things I look at when checking for accidents and I just automatically notice it on a car I'm inspecting. FWIW, on a Rap, and even for an M3, I'd rather have more money poured into engine, suspension, etc.

 

[Badgertits]

I'm gonna disagree with this statement. IMO both are similar in how they look a lot different from base. Both look substantially more badass than the pedestrian variants.

Bigger tires, fender flares, different hood & fascia, different stance, both have different steering wheels and seats (e90M gets the win on the seat front), and the M3 has substantially more area dedicated to functional heat exchangers. Both recently went from a wicked sounding V8 to a poop sounding FI 6 cyls, and for both the 6 cyl gives up throttle response for substantially more power.

Underneath, both have very substantial upgrades to almost everything that counts.

Which is why... I own both, though my M is of the V8 variety.

WRT the wavy doors, I can see both sides. Didn't stop me from buying the Rap, hell it didn't really bother me that much. But after a lot of experience buying used enthusiast vehicles, even though I was buying new I immediately noticed the effect the first time I started looking over Gen2 raps because it's one of several things I look at when checking for accidents and I just automatically notice it on a car I'm inspecting. FWIW, on a Rap, and even for an M3, I'd rather have more money poured into engine, suspension, etc.

I guess so, I'm not really a BMW fan anymore though so maybe that's why I feel it looks closer to a standard model? They started losing me as they trended away from manual transmissions & & focused much more on SUV's - although I do think they recently started putting a bit more effort back into their cars & performance models. The M2 or 135i is probably the most appealing model they've had in a while for me.

The high revving V8 in your M3 is a nice sounding engine & I liked the hood bulge, but I'm more of a domestic car guy & look @ something like an M3 no differently than a mustang/camaro/C63/Challenger/porsche - at the end of the day its a toy/hobby/weekend car w/ an intended purpose of being sporty/performance oriented w/ some examples being more street worthy & others being more track focused - but performance is really the end goal. That being said - the panel gaps & tech gadgets & suppleness of the leather are all secondary to raw performance #'s & being able to produce them reliably in the real world. I think that's kinda the point w/ the Raptor too, no?

I did have the dealer re-install a fender flare that wasn't 100% flush w/ the body like it should have been on my new Raptor FWIW

So - if you're like me & gravitate more toward domestic vehicles to begin w/, & my toy car is a modded C5 Z06, it's tough to really be convinced of the performance superiority of any German make if you know what I mean. I'd love to have an M3 too - but for me I gotta stick to 1 toy (car anyhow) & once you go vette its tough to go back.....& for the sake of closure, unlike an M3 (or a C63 or RS5 etc etc) a Vette aint based off any lowly base model - it gets its own engineering team top down. ;-)

 

[mezger]

@Badgertits 3 time Corvette offender here: C5, C5Z, C6Z

I used to be about performance numbers, but nowadays, I have a slightly different objective: especially because capabilities have improved dramatically over the past couple decades, after a certain minimum performance level, for something less than a competitive race car, I find driving enjoyment > performance capability.

But I agree either > super great fit and finish, though I do have an appreciation for good seats. And I have an aversion to infotainment.

On the eurotrash vs murcan tangent, I had the C6Z ~5 years, owned the C6Z and the e90M simultaneously for a couple years. Compared with the M, the C6Z can unquestionably put down better track numbers, but unless it's warm, dry, I have good pavement, and a fresh set of tires on it, I had a ton of trouble putting down power at any legal speed. To the point where, when driving on the street, I found the M as fun or more fun for anything less than lose-your-license territory. YMMV; I think that where one drives (some states have a very different roads from other states) and how one drives makes a big difference.

That said, I really liked the engineering of the C6Z: CF fenders, CF + balsa floor panels, Al frame, Ti rods, Ti intake valves (and exhaust after I sent my heads off to WCCH ahead of breaking an exhaust valve), a very light weight and space efficient design in the LS series of engines, huge brakes, etc. etc. I wouldn't mind converting a C6Z to a serious track toy sometime in the future, though there's a larger chance I'll build up a Cayman.

BTW, IMO the C6Z checks identical aesthetic boxes as do the Rap and M3.

 

[EricM]

Vettes. Meh.

C6 is puke styling-wise IMO. Looks like something a 13 year old Batman fan would pen. The C5 was worse though. Too soft overall, and a completely disjointed exterior design. Neither the C5 or C6 has a coherent design that encompasses the entire car. GM hasn't been able to style anything they've made in 30 years though, so no surprise.

At least they have good door skins I guess.

 

[Badgertits]

@Badgertits 3 time Corvette offender here: C5, C5Z, C6Z

I used to be about performance numbers, but nowadays, I have a slightly different objective: especially because capabilities have improved dramatically over the past couple decades, after a certain minimum performance level, for something less than a competitive race car, I find driving enjoyment > performance capability.

But I agree either > super great fit and finish, though I do have an appreciation for good seats. And I have an aversion to infotainment.

On the eurotrash vs murcan tangent, I had the C6Z ~5 years, owned the C6Z and the e90M simultaneously for a couple years. Compared with the M, the C6Z can unquestionably put down better track numbers, but unless it's warm, dry, I have good pavement, and a fresh set of tires on it, I had a ton of trouble putting down power at any legal speed. To the point where, when driving on the street, I found the M as fun or more fun for anything less than lose-your-license territory. YMMV; I think that where one drives (some states have a very different roads from other states) and how one drives makes a big difference.

That said, I really liked the engineering of the C6Z: CF fenders, CF + balsa floor panels, Al frame, Ti rods, Ti intake valves (and exhaust after I sent my heads off to WCCH ahead of breaking an exhaust valve), a very light weight and space efficient design in the LS series of engines, huge brakes, etc. etc. I wouldn't mind converting a C6Z to a serious track toy sometime in the future, though there's a larger chance I'll build up a Cayman.

BTW, IMO the C6Z checks identical aesthetic boxes as do the Rap and M3.

Yeah & I may think the same as you in 10-20 years (currently 38), but I'm surprised you would consider the C6Z over a C5Z for a track toy - before getting my diff vent & axle seals done & spending $400 on new tailights I "re-test drove" a couple stock C6Z's & they didn't do it for me, the AL space frame & CF panels sound cool but the car still weighs 300 lbs more than my old C5Z, and FEELS like it weighs 500 lbs more, & since my C5Z has the bolt-ons making 440whp its probably faster than a stock C6Z + it feels much smaller & tossable. I contemplated it but the deal would've been my car private sale or trade + $10k +/- cash to get into a C6Z w/ similar mileage (35-40k) + the $3-4k of parts/labor to get the heads/valve train corrected (while adding a cam probably too lol) which you obviously learned about - pretty much every LS7 is flawed in that regard. I drove a C6 ZR1 and would REALLLLYY like to own one but the values seemed to have reversed w/ nice ones hard to come by & appreciating daily it seems.

So - I wound up pulling the trigger on those mods & then some, adding an A&A blower kit + **** & a bunch of other odds & ends that you can do for $10k on a car C5Z that's bought & paid for ;-)

Like I said though, I'd like to have a 4 door performance car too to tool around in if I could, I'd like a G8 GXP or Chevy SS w/ a stick.....or an M3 sedan!

 

[mezger]

Pretty sure 2006 C6Z weighs about the same or is lighter than the 2004 C5Z. It does feel bigger due to the width, but to me, the car always felt amazingly light. One big difference I noticed was the gearing. After I got used to the C6Z, when I went back and drove (boltons) C5Zs, I really noticed how long the C6Z's legs are.

Not gonna fault you for modding the C5Z tho. I did the opposite. When I was buying (during the great recession), I summed what I was going to spend modding my C5Z the way I wanted and found that at the time, it was more cost effective to buy a C6Z. IMO, can't go wrong either way.

@EricM IMO, the C7s got the Michael Bay styling.

 

[EricM]

@EricM IMO, the C7s got the Michael Bay styling.

Yea, misspoke. C6 I guess is kinda forgettable styling wise. Not too good, not too bad. C7 is just trying too hard though.

The C4 was the last Vette that looked non-disjointed. Maybe the C8 can redeem GM for the last 30 years of styling shame? We'll see.

Wish my dad still had his 65 Convertible, was stolen in the early 80s. The styling of just the interior in that car was spectacular, let alone the exterior.

 

[davidl81]

@Badgertits 3 time Corvette offender here: C5, C5Z, C6Z

I used to be about performance numbers, but nowadays, I have a slightly different objective: especially because capabilities have improved dramatically over the past couple decades, after a certain minimum performance level, for something less than a competitive race car, I find driving enjoyment > performance capability.

But I agree either > super great fit and finish, though I do have an appreciation for good seats. And I have an aversion to infotainment.

On the eurotrash vs murcan tangent, I had the C6Z ~5 years, owned the C6Z and the e90M simultaneously for a couple years. Compared with the M, the C6Z can unquestionably put down better track numbers, but unless it's warm, dry, I have good pavement, and a fresh set of tires on it, I had a ton of trouble putting down power at any legal speed. To the point where, when driving on the street, I found the M as fun or more fun for anything less than lose-your-license territory. YMMV; I think that where one drives (some states have a very different roads from other states) and how one drives makes a big difference.

That said, I really liked the engineering of the C6Z: CF fenders, CF + balsa floor panels, Al frame, Ti rods, Ti intake valves (and exhaust after I sent my heads off to WCCH ahead of breaking an exhaust valve), a very light weight and space efficient design in the LS series of engines, huge brakes, etc. etc. I wouldn't mind converting a C6Z to a serious track toy sometime in the future, though there's a larger chance I'll build up a Cayman.

BTW, IMO the C6Z checks identical aesthetic boxes as do the Rap and M3.

I had a C6GS and even just stock I found it had a lot of trouble getting the power down without major wheel spin. It always felt like the rear end was just a little too light, but I know that's not the case. I'm sure it was more driver error than anything else. I had a 2014 M6 after the Vette and that thing was scary fast. I have never driven a car with that kind of straight line power, and I never felt like it had trouble keeping power down at the wheels. By the same token the M6 was heavy as crap and it was pretty difficult to drive on a track because of the weight, but on a straight a way when you asked for the power it gave you more than you could ever want.