Trouble starting after full fill up

[Staticroof]

I had the same issue with a 13 only did it after I filled the truck up. No codes. Mine was the Fuel Vapor Canister Purge Valve located on the drivers side firewall. I believe this is the part number 96880-07665839.


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[siooss]

For the past few months my truck has had a hard time starting up after a 100% fill up. (See video) If you hold the key long enough it may start. Or you’d need to move key back to acc and try again. Sometimes it starts right up 2nd or 3rd time, and sometimes it starts and feels choked and pops and you have to give it some gas and then it’s fine. This only happens after a compete fill up, any other time when less than 100% it starts right up no problem. The dealer replaced the Fuel canister purge valve, as I’ve heard of this being an issue, but no joy. No codes and I don’t think it’s the fuse 27 thing because truck will start eventually and starts anytime under 100% fuel.

Anyone have any insight? I’d like to point the dealer in the right direction other than blindly replacing parts. The video sounds like the starter is not engaging for a few seconds.

Current motor is a complete 6.6L Livernois Stroker, S&B intake, BBK throttle body, SW headers/exhaust, custom dyno tune.

@Livernois Motorsports any ideas?

IMG_9199.MOV

Also check the Vapor Canister Vent Valve / Solenoid, see number 5 in attached picture from maintenance manual, along with checking all hoses and connections of EVAP system, a leak in the EVAP would most likely throw a code. Starter going bad, as noted by others, would be next issue, recommend removal and cleaning of all connections to the starter (after disconnecting battery) and check / clean grounding points, sometimes a poor ground is cause of head scratching issues. I have ceramic coated headers and used heat shield wrap around the actual starter/solenoid to help reflect heat.

 

[FordTechOne]

Based on the video, the concern is a no crank no start, correct? The first time you turn the ignition to start I hear a noise, but it does not sound like the engine is cranking. If that is the case, then the dealer improperly diagosed the issue. A purge valve or EVAP (carbon) canister will never cause a no crank condition.

As others have mentioned, it could very possibly be the starter, especially with headers. Other possibilities include the ignition switch, the circuit to the starter solenoid ("S" Terminal), the Transmission Range (TR) sensor, the starter relay, or the main power (B+) and ground (starter case). It does not appear to be Body Control Module (BCM) or PATS (Passive Anti-Theft System) related because it does not display "Starting System Fault" in the Instrument Cluster.

Start by inspecting all of the connections at the battery and starter. They should be clean, tight, and free of any corrosion. If there are no connection issues, wiggle the shifter or move it to Neutral and try to start it again. If it starts on the first try, try the same test on the next no crank and see if it is consistent. If moving the shifter gets it to start, you may have an issue with your TR sensor.

Do you have access to ForScan? The PIDs are very helpful when diagnosing issues such as this.

 

[nick0331]

I had the same issue with a 13 only did it after I filled the truck up. No codes. Mine was the Fuel Vapor Canister Purge Valve located on the drivers side firewall. I believe this is the part number 96880-07665839.


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Tried that. Still the same. Going to have them try starter next.

 

[John Butler]

Can’t comment on your problem but I note the dogtag on your keys

 

[nick0331]

Based on the video, the concern is a no crank no start, correct? The first time you turn the ignition to start I hear a noise, but it does not sound like the engine is cranking. If that is the case, then the dealer improperly diagosed the issue. A purge valve or EVAP (carbon) canister will never cause a no crank condition.

As others have mentioned, it could very possibly be the starter, especially with headers. Other possibilities include the ignition switch, the circuit to the starter solenoid ("S" Terminal), the Transmission Range (TR) sensor, the starter relay, or the main power (B+) and ground (starter case). It does not appear to be Body Control Module (BCM) or PATS (Passive Anti-Theft System) related because it does not display "Starting System Fault" in the Instrument Cluster.

Start by inspecting all of the connections at the battery and starter. They should be clean, tight, and free of any corrosion. If there are no connection issues, wiggle the shifter or move it to Neutral and try to start it again. If it starts on the first try, try the same test on the next no crank and see if it is consistent. If moving the shifter gets it to start, you may have an issue with your TR sensor.

Do you have access to ForScan? The PIDs are very helpful when diagnosing issues such as this.

Thanks for the great info. I’m going to have them start with inspecting and cleaning the starter on Monday. Hopefully that’s the issue and just needs the connections cleaned or the unit replaced, easy fix. And will definitely be adding some heat wrap to the starter either way. I don’t have access to Forscan. My good friend is the service advisor so I can relay this info for the technician. Who btw had to replace some module in the head unit, the front and rear cameras were cutting out and going nuts, good news is the module fixed the cams, but the tech screwed something up because the touchscreen gives no feed back beeps and the stereo makes no sound at any input, oh and my switch pro has no power now either. So the truck will be there for a few more days needless to say.

 

[FordTechOne]

Thanks for the great info. I’m going to have them start with inspecting and cleaning the starter on Monday. Hopefully that’s the issue and just needs the connections cleaned or the unit replaced, easy fix. And will definitely be adding some heat wrap to the starter either way. I don’t have access to Forscan. My good friend is the service advisor so I can relay this info for the technician. Who btw had to replace some module in the head unit, the front and rear cameras were cutting out and going nuts, good news is the module fixed the cams, but the tech screwed something up because the touchscreen gives no feed back beeps and the stereo makes no sound at any input, oh and my switch pro has no power now either. So the truck will be there for a few more days needless to say.

View attachment 135323

Sounds like the camera switching module failed. That module controls the operation of the front and rear cameras; issues with said module are not unheard of.

The dealer will have Ford IDS (Integrated Diagnostic System) which is the Ford OEM scan tool and is better than the aftermarket ForScan for diagnostics. I only asked about ForScan to see if we might be able to diagnose the issue without going to the dealer. If the dealer follows the proper PinPoint Test while the issue is present, they should easily be able to determine the root cause. Attempting to diagnose the issue while its starting normally will only lead to them throwing parts at it. You may want to have the technician ride with you with IDS connected so that they can duplicate the concern as it happens.

 

[nick0331]

Sounds like the camera switching module failed. That module controls the operation of the front and rear cameras; issues with said module are not unheard of.

The dealer will have Ford IDS (Integrated Diagnostic System) which is the Ford OEM scan tool and is better than the aftermarket ForScan for diagnostics. I only asked about ForScan to see if we might be able to diagnose the issue without going to the dealer. If the dealer follows the proper PinPoint Test while the issue is present, they should easily be able to determine the root cause. Attempting to diagnose the issue while its starting normally will only lead to them throwing parts at it. You may want to have the technician ride with you with IDS connected so that they can duplicate the concern as it happens.

Yeah I also have heard of that camera module failing, was an easy fix, apart from whatever they screwed up with the radio but they’ll have to figure that out.
Hopefully the cleaning or potential replacement of the starter fixes the issue. It’s kind of difficult to reproduce the issue since is only at 100% full, which is a weird coincidence. I had to take it from them and drive a mile to the gas station and top it off and then reproduce there in their bay. They have several videos of me starting it there and the same issue occurring. If it isn’t the starter then we will have to go further down the rabbit hole. I’ve also heard of the fuel pump control module by the spare going out and causing similar issues.
On another note the stock fuel pump is rated for 500hp. The Livernois 6.6L dyno’d here at 7k feet made 526hp at motor, 650s sea level. Also curious if the fuel pump is not keeping up with the modified motor. Or if this is combination of issues. Replacing the OEM pump with the @Livernois Motorsports fuel pump rated at over 700hp has been on my radar since the motor swap.

 

[FordTechOne]

Yeah I also have heard of that camera module failing, was an easy fix, apart from whatever they screwed up with the radio but they’ll have to figure that out.
Hopefully the cleaning or potential replacement of the starter fixes the issue. It’s kind of difficult to reproduce the issue since is only at 100% full, which is a weird coincidence. I had to take it from them and drive a mile to the gas station and top it off and then reproduce there in their bay. They have several videos of me starting it there and the same issue occurring. If it isn’t the starter then we will have to go further down the rabbit hole. I’ve also heard of the fuel pump control module by the spare going out and causing similar issues.
On another note the stock fuel pump is rated for 500hp. The Livernois 6.6L dyno’d here at 7k feet made 526hp at motor, 650s sea level. Also curious if the fuel pump is not keeping up with the modified motor. Or if this is combination of issues. Replacing the OEM pump with the @Livernois Motorsports fuel pump rated at over 700hp has been on my radar since the motor swap.

Sounds good. Just remember, if it's a no crank, no start (engine doesn't turn over) it's not fuel related or engine performance related. That can only be caused by starter engagement, which is attributed to one of the causes I posted earlier.

 

[nick0331]

Sounds good. Just remember, if it's a no crank, no start (engine doesn't turn over) it's not fuel related or engine performance related. That can only be caused by starter engagement, which is attributed to one of the causes I posted earlier.

100% agree. And if I forgot to mention, it has always started. It will just make that noise you attributed to the starter, and take a few times. Drive 5 min home and try and start and it starts perfect.
Thanks for all the help.