Transmission : service writer said he wasn't going to change the filter??? Is this how ford rolls?

[nikhsub1]

The PPE pan seems like a better overall deal to me. Plus it has a drain plug. $1k on a trans pan? Umm, no thx.

 

[thatJeepguy]

LOL When your truck is upside down in a ditch and the locals are shooting at it, you will be happy that the pan is bulletproof. Jeez ...

Like what good is a drain hole if theres no access the the filter?

 

[Alysium]

Like what good is a drain hole if theres no access the the filter?

Makes it easier and less mess draining the fluid for pan drop, filter replacement.

Just an added convenience, but convenience nonetheless.

It took about 1.5 hours when I swapped to a ppe aluminum pan. If you have the time and basic tools, it's not hard to do.

 

[Meat2022]

The shop I use will do a new filter and fluids for me on my transmission for 130....I told them let's do rear diff and transfer case to...they said no problem, 300 for everything. They are great and very reliable and knowledgeable. So 2 weeks im getting my gen1 handled. I'm just going to go with exactly what ford recommends for fluids even though I always have used other fluids in my M3.

 

[thatJeepguy]

Well I guess I better get involved here and probably step on my D I C K a little.

The service the OP was originally sold should really be called "fluid exchange" vs "flush". But due to semantics Fluid exchange sounds "cheap" while Flush sounds "technical".

here is how it works.

Normally a device (hose ultimately) is tapped into a transmission cooler line, but some times a line pressure port on the side of the transmission. When the engine is started the transmission pump pumps fluid to this hose, the fluid is intercepted, and the flow rate measured. At the same flow rate new fluid is put back in the transmission. 1pt out 1pt in, 1qt out 1qt in.

I have no ephing idea why some one would say the this method "back flushes" or cleans the filter, what a load of horse shit.

This method if done correctly swaps over 90% of the fluid.

I actually like this method as it has been extremely successful for my shop.

Most transmissions we will "flush" with 16qts of fluid, this is about 1.5 times what they hold. Bigger transmissions we will use around 25qts.

Again 1 out 1 in so the transmission is not being over filled but cleaned out. We do check and adjust fluid level after.

With a traditional transmission service you only get about 50% of the fluid changed. The old E4OD and 4R100 transmissions held around 16 quarts, dropping the pan and refilling normally only takes 7-8 quarts.

I understand the thought "what about the filter", well what about it? I think you (and trust me , me as well until a couple years ago) are over thinking it. About 75% (that might be a tad high) of vehicles made in the last 15 years do not have transmission filters that are serviceable. (rear wheel based vehicles are really the only ones that do).

I will send anyone $200 if they can show me a transmission filter that was restricted with debris that the transmission was NOT Ephed, that the restricted filter was the one and only cause of the transmission having a problem. It doesn't happen, by the time the filter is plugged something bad has happened and you are screwed.

Now we do the service as a maintenance, but also as a repair service.

When a car comes into my shop and has transmission issue we do some diagnostics that we make sure it is not an electrical issue, or not an obvious mechanical issue (bad grinding noises etc) we will recommend a fluid exchange to start. I have a deal that if after the vehicle does need transmission replacement I will apply the cost of the "flush" to the repair.

looking over my data for the last 2 years we are at a 87% success rate. 47 transmissions that did not get replaced. Most of those had been to other shops and told they needs transmissions.

I can think of a couple, one was a 2011 or 2012 Infiniti QX80 (187,000 miles). About 3 months after we did an $8000 engine repair (dealer quoted $20,000) my customer came back with it shifting hard, bucking, slamming into gear. Just over all garbage shifting and engagement. He was ready to spend another $8000 on a transmission, he literally had a cashiers check in his hand. I talked to him about changing the fluid, he told me NO for two days. He absolutely felt it was a waste of time and money. 2-3 days after when we were about to get the Infiniti in the shop I talked to him again and he said okay try the fluid change.

Well I wouldn't tell the story if it didn't work. It did work, the amazing thing is the fix is all but instant, after the service with in 100ft the trans was shifting perfect. My customer was amazed and flat told me after he drove it a couple days that he had bet against me. After I saved him over $10k on the engine repair he was happy, but I could tell he wasn't exactly "my customer" yet. After this transmission repair he became "my customer" and he is one of my best. The guy is a car guy, he owns a 2001 ****** ZX2 with 367,000 miles on the original engine and transmission (manual trans) but he also owns a newer Porsche Panamera (which is gorgeous,but not my cup of tea). The ****** is his commuter.

I also remember a honda that we did twice, first flush took care of about 85% of the shifting issue. The improvement was dramatic enough to suggest a second flush after driving it for a couple days. 2nd time took care of all the issues and customer very impressed.

This "fluid exchange" wont fix anything that is actually broken, obviously. New Clean fluid helps clean sticking valves/solenoids, probably puts the fluid back to the viscosity the computer is programmed for.

from a maintenance stand point it is actually very good.

As I get older I realize that things are constantly changing, and that we hate change. Don't be so fast to discount a new way of doing things.

When I took the job I have now of running an auto repair shop I had to learn all about this. I worked at a Ford dealer from 1986-2012, left and worked for myself in a little 2 bay garage for close to 10 years. I had done everything "old school" for a long ass time.

My shop has 6 bays, two quick lube/tire bays and 4 repair bays. I had never been involved in the quick lube side of the business. When we signed our contract with our oil distributor my rep said he would bring over some fluid exchange equipment.

He brought equipment and the one that blew my mind was the differential service machine. It is just a huge suction device, you pull out the fill plug stick a straw in and suck out 90% of the fluid (sometimes more) and put new fluid in. At first I was "what in the actual F". I had been doing diff services by removing the cover and draining fluid, inspecting and resealing the cover for 30 years.

I told my rep that this was ********. He explained a couple things to me.

1: this is how it is done now, you will not survive doing it your way that costs 3 x more in labor
2: this is no different than a diff having a drain plug (which some do and many here have added)
3: you don't remove the oil pan to change oil on a engine
4: you don't change oil on an engine that is seized, meaning the fluid change is ment for maintenance and if there is an obvious mechanical failure you obviously disassemble and repair.

We constantly want more efficient ways of doing things.

I am not against changing the filter, just most transmissions don't have a filter you can service anymore and those that do the owners don't want to pay to replace it.

Great in-site and thank you. It makes a lot of sense. But I also work a lot with filters in the business I'm in specifically fluid flowing through them. And can tell you when the efficiency of a filter goes south as much as 15-20 % there is a greater load on the pumping equipment which causes after effects like increased seal friction and load on motors. Believe me I wish i could just exchange fluid and be in good confidence but theres a reason the 10R80 has a filter in it. Filters need to be clean and free if debris . Hell my a/c stopped blowing cool yesterday cause the mexican landscaper blew mulch in/on the damn condenser coil and clogged it up.

 

[thatJeepguy]

The shop I use will do a new filter and fluids for me on my transmission for 130....I told them let's do rear diff and transfer case to...they said no problem, 300 for everything. They are great and very reliable and knowledgeable. So 2 weeks im getting my gen1 handled. I'm just going to go with exactly what ford recommends for fluids even though I always have used other fluids in my M3.

Jeez where at? Im getting ripped.

 

[FordTechOne]

Well I guess I better get involved here and probably step on my D I C K a little.

The service the OP was originally sold should really be called "fluid exchange" vs "flush". But due to semantics Fluid exchange sounds "cheap" while Flush sounds "technical".

here is how it works.

Normally a device (hose ultimately) is tapped into a transmission cooler line, but some times a line pressure port on the side of the transmission. When the engine is started the transmission pump pumps fluid to this hose, the fluid is intercepted, and the flow rate measured. At the same flow rate new fluid is put back in the transmission. 1pt out 1pt in, 1qt out 1qt in.

I have no ephing idea why some one would say the this method "back flushes" or cleans the filter, what a load of horse shit.

This method if done correctly swaps over 90% of the fluid.

I actually like this method as it has been extremely successful for my shop.

Most transmissions we will "flush" with 16qts of fluid, this is about 1.5 times what they hold. Bigger transmissions we will use around 25qts.

Again 1 out 1 in so the transmission is not being over filled but cleaned out. We do check and adjust fluid level after.

With a traditional transmission service you only get about 50% of the fluid changed. The old E4OD and 4R100 transmissions held around 16 quarts, dropping the pan and refilling normally only takes 7-8 quarts.

I understand the thought "what about the filter", well what about it? I think you (and trust me , me as well until a couple years ago) are over thinking it. About 75% (that might be a tad high) of vehicles made in the last 15 years do not have transmission filters that are serviceable. (rear wheel based vehicles are really the only ones that do).

I will send anyone $200 if they can show me a transmission filter that was restricted with debris that the transmission was NOT Ephed, that the restricted filter was the one and only cause of the transmission having a problem. It doesn't happen, by the time the filter is plugged something bad has happened and you are screwed.

Now we do the service as a maintenance, but also as a repair service.

When a car comes into my shop and has transmission issue we do some diagnostics that we make sure it is not an electrical issue, or not an obvious mechanical issue (bad grinding noises etc) we will recommend a fluid exchange to start. I have a deal that if after the vehicle does need transmission replacement I will apply the cost of the "flush" to the repair.

looking over my data for the last 2 years we are at a 87% success rate. 47 transmissions that did not get replaced. Most of those had been to other shops and told they needs transmissions.

I can think of a couple, one was a 2011 or 2012 Infiniti QX80 (187,000 miles). About 3 months after we did an $8000 engine repair (dealer quoted $20,000) my customer came back with it shifting hard, bucking, slamming into gear. Just over all garbage shifting and engagement. He was ready to spend another $8000 on a transmission, he literally had a cashiers check in his hand. I talked to him about changing the fluid, he told me NO for two days. He absolutely felt it was a waste of time and money. 2-3 days after when we were about to get the Infiniti in the shop I talked to him again and he said okay try the fluid change.

Well I wouldn't tell the story if it didn't work. It did work, the amazing thing is the fix is all but instant, after the service with in 100ft the trans was shifting perfect. My customer was amazed and flat told me after he drove it a couple days that he had bet against me. After I saved him over $10k on the engine repair he was happy, but I could tell he wasn't exactly "my customer" yet. After this transmission repair he became "my customer" and he is one of my best. The guy is a car guy, he owns a 2001 ****** ZX2 with 367,000 miles on the original engine and transmission (manual trans) but he also owns a newer Porsche Panamera (which is gorgeous,but not my cup of tea). The ****** is his commuter.

I also remember a honda that we did twice, first flush took care of about 85% of the shifting issue. The improvement was dramatic enough to suggest a second flush after driving it for a couple days. 2nd time took care of all the issues and customer very impressed.

This "fluid exchange" wont fix anything that is actually broken, obviously. New Clean fluid helps clean sticking valves/solenoids, probably puts the fluid back to the viscosity the computer is programmed for.

from a maintenance stand point it is actually very good.

As I get older I realize that things are constantly changing, and that we hate change. Don't be so fast to discount a new way of doing things.

When I took the job I have now of running an auto repair shop I had to learn all about this. I worked at a Ford dealer from 1986-2012, left and worked for myself in a little 2 bay garage for close to 10 years. I had done everything "old school" for a long ass time.

My shop has 6 bays, two quick lube/tire bays and 4 repair bays. I had never been involved in the quick lube side of the business. When we signed our contract with our oil distributor my rep said he would bring over some fluid exchange equipment.

He brought equipment and the one that blew my mind was the differential service machine. It is just a huge suction device, you pull out the fill plug stick a straw in and suck out 90% of the fluid (sometimes more) and put new fluid in. At first I was "what in the actual F". I had been doing diff services by removing the cover and draining fluid, inspecting and resealing the cover for 30 years.

I told my rep that this was ********. He explained a couple things to me.

1: this is how it is done now, you will not survive doing it your way that costs 3 x more in labor
2: this is no different than a diff having a drain plug (which some do and many here have added)
3: you don't remove the oil pan to change oil on a engine
4: you don't change oil on an engine that is seized, meaning the fluid change is ment for maintenance and if there is an obvious mechanical failure you obviously disassemble and repair.

We constantly want more efficient ways of doing things.

I am not against changing the filter, just most transmissions don't have a filter you can service anymore and those that do the owners don't want to pay to replace it.

All great points. Further adding to the “flush” confusion is process required to clean out the transmission cooler lines and fluid after an internal transmission repair. The Heated Cooler line flusher (G-Tec/FloDynanics) required by Ford is connected to the transmission cooler lines and flushes both those and the cooler. The heated fluid is required to open the thermostat built into the bypass valve.

 

[Keith88]

Something ive learned with auto trans.... dont touch the fluid unless somethings has gone wrong.. when trans starts to slip or have issues just rebuild it.

 

[1BAD454SSv2]

it wouldnt even be a bad job to do yourself if getting the fill level right wasn't such a PITA. I ended up using bbq gloves.

I assume the 10speed dip stick/fill hole is in the same stupid spot as the 6spd.

B and M locking dipstick worth it for this reason , install and get your level readings before your service , then do your service . Then you can add fluid to where you were before . I have same one on my Gen 1 and 2 . Redline D6 Fluid on both trucks as well . You can fill though this hose as well.

https://www.rpgoffroad.com/product/bm-22200-locking-transmission-dipstick-for-2010-2019-6r80-10r80/

 

[Meat2022]

Jeez where at? Im getting ripped.

Cheatwoods in Heflin AL , this is a gen 1 , great guys for sure