Trade a Raptor for a Lightning?

[smurfslayer]

Good responses!

An electric clothes dryer tends to use about 5-5.6kW while running. So, your 1 hour example, 5.6kWh. Here, where admittedly in the Midwest we have reasonably cheap electricity, we're about $0.10/kWh delivered. Makes the math pretty easy, $0.56 per 1 hour, or $2.24 for the 4 hours you mention.

A modern, energy efficient one, possibly. I did an experiment in my last house, because I was tired of hearing the dryer running at all hours. I stopped using it except to purge the wrinkles. Yeah, I hung my clothes out on clothes lines like my cheapskate frugal ancestors. The savings was between 40 - 50 bucks per month, no other changes.

good work on completing the math though, helping to put hard numbers to the mystical theory as of yet.

It does not really matter how fast you charge it, 80A, 20A, 40A - it just changes the rate. The amount remains the same, and costs the same.

I have a different opinion. I believe it very much will matter how fast you charge as the faster charge will put a higher load on the ‘grid’. If you’re in the midst of an unprecedented, historic winter storm or record setting heat even at night, then the grid doesn’t get the ‘break’ in the form of lower load and would very much impact availability, possibly cost to purchase energy on the part of suppliers ( I’m talking about you, Texas ) and the potential for rationing in the form of rolling blackouts.

Your clothes dryer is also definitely not the biggest energy hog in a household. The reasoning is largely efficiency. Your refrigerators/freezers and AC being the more inefficient systems will use the most. The resistive heating elements and motor of the electric dryer will be nearly 100% efficient, which is an important thing to understand in larger terms - because EV drivetrains follow that rule as well.

Well, I’ve not experimented in rationing fridges, freezers, AC and a lot of other things in my house, but I have rationed the dryer.

Duke Energy
Dominion
AEP

are just some examples of regulated utilities,

I’ve definitely been a Dominion customer and IIRC, the NoVA customer base get the majority of the energy from coal - I think possibly Chalk point? There is a nuclear contribution and I think they may have recently implemented wind power, but I’m not certain of how significant it is. They are well positioned...

Also your math is a little fuzzy on the output requirements for level 2 charging, usually a 60 amp circuit is good enough to charge a Level 2 output over night. Anywhere from 40-50-60 will work but I would use a 60 amp breaker.

IIRC, the Lightning needs an 80 amp circuit. Maybe it would work on a lower rated circuit but if you want the benefit of being able to power your house, probably best not to skimp.

Maybe the gov will pay for everyone to upgrade electric heat to heat pumps. If not, the people with natural gas heat, water heaters and appliances are really going to be screwed when their locality outlaws gas appliances and mandates electric cars. The typical 125amp 2500 sq/ft (gas) house service is gonna get wrung out.

Did someone say “heavy up”?

I’ve been out of the Electrical industry for a while. How long? A heavy up ran $800-$900 when I ran a truck. I understand from a very good friend and current electrician it’s a SOLID 3-4X that amount now.

So, the takeaway here, if there is one or a few

The Lightning will not be the boon to consumer budgets most people think it will.

It also won’t be helping the environment as we may have been led to believe.

Our mileage will definitely vary, because if my wife gets a hold of a Lighting we’ll be charging it every day - she broke the ton on the Rap before I did.

And, as I’ve said before...

F150 Raptor. Austin to El Paso on one tank of gas.

 

[GCATX]

Good responses!


A modern, energy efficient one, possibly. I did an experiment in my last house, because I was tired of hearing the dryer running at all hours. I stopped using it except to purge the wrinkles. Yeah, I hung my clothes out on clothes lines like my cheapskate frugal ancestors. The savings was between 40 - 50 bucks per month, no other changes.

good work on completing the math though, helping to put hard numbers to the mystical theory as of yet.


I have a different opinion. I believe it very much will matter how fast you charge as the faster charge will put a higher load on the ‘grid’. If you’re in the midst of an unprecedented, historic winter storm or record setting heat even at night, then the grid doesn’t get the ‘break’ in the form of lower load and would very much impact availability, possibly cost to purchase energy on the part of suppliers ( I’m talking about you, Texas ) and the potential for rationing in the form of rolling blackouts.



Well, I’ve not experimented in rationing fridges, freezers, AC and a lot of other things in my house, but I have rationed the dryer.

I’ve definitely been a Dominion customer and IIRC, the NoVA customer base get the majority of the energy from coal - I think possibly Chalk point? There is a nuclear contribution and I think they may have recently implemented wind power, but I’m not certain of how significant it is. They are well positioned...


IIRC, the Lightning needs an 80 amp circuit. Maybe it would work on a lower rated circuit but if you want the benefit of being able to power your house, probably best not to skimp.



Did someone say “heavy up”?

I’ve been out of the Electrical industry for a while. How long? A heavy up ran $800-$900 when I ran a truck. I understand from a very good friend and current electrician it’s a SOLID 3-4X that amount now.

So, the takeaway here, if there is one or a few

The Lightning will not be the boon to consumer budgets most people think it will.

It also won’t be helping the environment as we may have been led to believe.

Our mileage will definitely vary, because if my wife gets a hold of a Lighting we’ll be charging it every day - she broke the ton on the Rap before I did.

And, as I’ve said before...

F150 Raptor. Austin to El Paso on one tank of gas.

We are solidly in Ukraine aid type money for all that.

 

[rfc805]

I have a different opinion. I believe it very much will matter how fast you charge as the faster charge will put a higher load on the ‘grid’. If you’re in the midst of an unprecedented, historic winter storm or record setting heat even at night, then the grid doesn’t get the ‘break’ in the form of lower load and would very much impact availability, possibly cost to purchase energy on the part of suppliers ( I’m talking about you, Texas ) and the potential for rationing in the form of rolling blackouts.

Entirely different problem/concern, but not invalid. Counter point to it, is in places where you already have rolling blackouts and peak rates, the Lightning can serve as a battery to charge during the lowest rates (overnight), and actually be used to provide power during the lower rates or blackouts. It does so at a really impressive cost. Buying a similar battery/inverter for your house would probably run you 40-60K, and you don't get a vehicle to go with it. The model might never catch on, but if it did, it would actually tremendously help areas with "at risk" grids by providing more demand smoothing.

IIRC, the Lightning needs an 80 amp circuit. Maybe it would work on a lower rated circuit but if you want the benefit of being able to power your house, probably best not to skimp.

It does not, you can even charge it off a 120v 15a standard outlet if you were so inclined. You'd just be waiting a long time. It gets a bit over 2 miles per kWh. So charging at 1.5kW, well, planning in advance puts it mildly.

As with all things, it depends entirely on your situation. You could make a laundry list of why a Raptor is an absolutely terrible choice for most people. It is, even. Both are remarkable pieces of engineering, and I'd love to own both. I drive more than 200 miles at a time maybe 6 times in a year. As with probably 99% of Raptor or Lightning owners, I have multiple vehicles. For 99% of my driving, I could surely do it by never charging anywhere but at home.

 

[WEJER]

Traded my Gen 2 for a Lightning and now I'd like to get a Gen 3 Raptor. Just throwing it out there in the event anyone wants to trade their Gen 3 Raptor for my Iconic silver ER Lariat Lightning. 6600 miles and growing (no gas cost!)-2 sets of wheels and tires

If not, looking to buy a private party Gen3. LMK if you know of anything.

PFA

No thanks on the lightning. We like our ICE for trucks!

 

[WEJER]

Wouldn’t want the Rivian either. Even after seeing this…

 

[Non-Sense]

I drove past a guy in my Gen 3 today and he was charging his Lightning at a truck stop and twiddling his thumbs waiting on it. Felt bad for him!

 

[jamanrr]

I don't have any idea what most of you all pay per KwH but that is the only way EVs make sense, it may hurt grids in California or Texas but that isn't the case for many mid south mid west states. The grid modifications are being made even in a state like Texas that has ERCOT. Listen you don't have to like EVs or buy one and things could all change direction if Buden gets trumped in the next election, no pun.

The USA is right now making preparations for large scale battery production for these vehicles. Natural gas will still be in use since it tends to have a cleaner carbon footprint than ever nuclear heavy regulated utilities. I never understood why utilities were allowed to do what they want in Texas and California as customers deserve reliable, cheap, efficient energy without fear of blackouts and brown outs.

 

[impaul4]

Id just rather enjoy a raptor for 5-7 more years and wait until it takes half the battery pack to get twice the range.

 

[MattR]

I don't have any idea what most of you all pay per KwH but that is the only way EVs make sense, it may hurt grids in California or Texas but that isn't the case for many mid south mid west states. The grid modifications are being made even in a state like Texas that has ERCOT. Listen you don't have to like EVs or buy one and things could all change direction if Buden gets trumped in the next election, no pun.

The USA is right now making preparations for large scale battery production for these vehicles. Natural gas will still be in use since it tends to have a cleaner carbon footprint than ever nuclear heavy regulated utilities. I never understood why utilities were allowed to do what they want in Texas and California as customers deserve reliable, cheap, efficient energy without fear of blackouts and brown outs.

We pay 4.73c/kWh and I'm getting 3.2-3.3 miles/kWh so it is almost free.

If people charge at night it nearly eliminates the risk of overtaxing the grid

 

[fts]

Just to chime in for a brief moment:

I don’t really understand the comments people make about the government shoving EVs down the throat of anyone. It is a free country no one is obligated to buy anything. In California, next election they can choose a different government, which can change the mandates if they do not like the idea of getting rid of ICE by 2030.

The incentives the Feds give for EV production, battery production, solar power, and sales is minuscule to the incentives we have been giving to the oil and gas companies for decades. We never thought they are shoving dirty oil down our throats.

Also interestingly, some of the consumers in Cali are now feeding their battery stored power back to the grid. Just amazing how solutions pop up in the face of challenges. So, imagine we have bunch of EVs in the future that can help the grid deal with extreme situations.

I never thought having an EV, but now I cannot be happier. Yes, it has its challenges, not as easy as an ICE vehicle, but I can make those compromises. Without some incentives introduced from the external, most people like me won’t agree to make the compromises, which at the end, are not life altering.

I hope we can be open minded for change overall.