Stage 4 CRP Turbos Revisted (ZFGRACING)

[zfgracing]

Here is the metal pan.

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[Zeusmotorworks]

Picture is worth a thousand words...

 

[TwizzleStix]

Here is the metal pan.

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Perfect. As I said, the oil pickup is in the REAR. The oil PUMP is in the front. This oil pump/pickup (front/rear) configuration applies to all the Ford Duratec-based engines. The point is that acceleration forces will make the oil move to the rear of the pan where the oil pickup is located, so there will not likely be any oil starvation/cavitation UNLESS the oil level is pretty low OR the engine is beat on with cold oil. When the oil is cold, the pump moves it up into the engine passages, but it takes much longer to collect back into the pan.

 

[blwn]

Perfect. As I said, the oil pickup is in the REAR. The oil PUMP is in the front. This oil pump/pickup (front/rear) configuration applies to all the Ford Duratec-based engines. The point is that acceleration forces will make the oil move to the rear of the pan where the oil pickup is located, so there will not likely be any oil starvation/cavitation UNLESS the oil level is pretty low OR the engine is beat on with cold oil. When the oil is cold, the pump moves it up into the engine passages, but it takes much longer to collect back into the pan.

I think ZFG is saying the pickup is at the front of the sump, which as you pointed out is at the rear of the pan.

 

[FordTechOne]

It spun a bearing.

I don't believe it to be tune or power related. At least not in the sense of it was too much. I have other customers running 100-200 more hp on e85 through the stock short block.

It's definitely hard to say what the root cause is especially because I wasn't the only tuner work on the truck so I don't know the full history of all the power that it did or didn't make.

There are definitely a couple things that could be at play one of them is oil pressure in general I believe we touched on that in this thread already but if the oil isn't exactly at the full level or slightly above you end up with oil pressure drops on any hard launch. Many 3.5ls have fallen victim to that. There is also a bunch of 3.5ls out there have your tore up bearings on stock tunes with no mods and under 2k miles on them.

This is a good time to point out that as you guys turn these things up, there is always an increased risk of stuff like this happening. If you don't want to take that kind of risk you are better off staying stock and keeping up with maintenance.

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If I recall correctly, wasn't @Guy ('s) truck the one that was poorly tuned and you helped him get it running properly? Any chance that the original tuning was resulting in over fueling/cylinder washdown/fuel in oil? That would certainly have caused excessive wear, which could be root cause of the failure if it's bearing related.

 

[Muchmore]

I already have a dialogue underway for a Ram TRX. Ill roll around in that until the predator Raptor comes out next year. . So I’ll only be Temporarily away.

If you have been following any of the new TRX delivery (problem) threads it certainly sounds like ownership will VERY temporary

Good luck with that mess..... The knocking Raptor may be more reliable still.

 

[Jakenbake]

Wonder how much oil is in the pan when the engine is running? If the oil is low enough you might be able to starve the pump/pickup if the acceleration forces are high enough.

Would the pump suck in air if the pickup is dry causing any kind of temporary air lock until it purges itself?

Just an inquisitive mind asking questions

 

[Muchmore]

Have the prior tuners hit you with, I told you not to go so far yet? Hopefully not...

 

[Guy]

Nah and I’m not looking for any negativity. I had fun with it. I learned a lot. I enjoyed it. I broke it. Me... no one else... I pushed it beyond the limit of my motor...

And that’s ok because there are new long blocks and it’ll be better than before.

 

[zfgracing]

This is what I'm talking about, it's pretty common to see in a lot of EcoBoost with the pump all the way in the front of the motor in the pickup in the front of the sump it's very easy to speculate that the oil is running away from the pick up on a hard launch.

Not going to speculate any about the old tune, it's hard to say. Like guy says there was nothing alarming in the logs including no alarming oil pressure events that we saw. So it kind of strange, but it comes with the territory.

Like I said there's plenty of Motors out there that are making more power then this one but at the same time there's also been similar bearing failures on engines that are making less power and even stock power.

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