Safety check if you have an aftermarket front “Suspension System”

[SDHQ]

ADD installed their kit on the truck as tested with stock Shox and the owner had Kings installed at another shop after the fact(against Jarod's advice).

Here is the problem with that...

From the owner -
"I told them I was interested in the shocks, they got me a pair sent to LG Motorsports. They never indicated they had concerns about them not being installed in their shop as a matter of fact they told me they would just bolt on,"

and earlier emails.....


On Jul 15, 2011, at 7:40 PM, "Micah Adams" <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes we can, I can get you the shocks by wed, they are massive 3.0 Bret king says they have 4 times the damping, Clicker Adjustable and you will absolutely love them. 2500.00 plus shipping I will 2 day them so you have them in time, Just email me back and I will process this before I leave today. Thanks Dan


From: Micah Adams [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 5:38 PM
To:
Subject: Re: king

Dan Call me asap. I have shocks for you.
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:44 AM,
wrote:
In my hands July 19.

From:
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:43 AM
To:
Subject: Re: king

whats your deadline date again?
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:41 AM,
> wrote:
I’m running out of time. Can you push Killen.

Thanks


From: Micah Adams [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:28 AM
To:
Subject: king

I spoke with king, they are finished with development and working on all the components. I would say at least a few more weeks. From talking with king these shocks are going to be amazing.

--
Thank you and have a great day


Micah Adams
Sales / Marketing
Addictive Desert Designs
Addictive Desert Designs
[email protected]
Phone (480) 671-0820

 

[Scottysspeedshop]

LOL...

Here again is the statement from an offroad suspension engineer... Not from SDHQ



Anybody stating that they are getting more travel with a spacer lift is false. The shock is both the bump and droop stop. You only get as much travel as the shaft and motion ratio will allow, it’s just in another range in reference to the chassis (lift). May as well just put a sub frame kit on it at that point.

As for 4142 HT, you can easily outperform an exotic material with just a small dimensional change. Geometry wins over material hands down and that spacer is ****ing scary. The other no-no in both those spacers is pulling a taper into the spindle and then pulling back on it when the other hardware is installed. It’s called an “indeterminate structure” and unless an EXTENSIVE amount of engineering goes into it calculating compressive and tensile deflection in all the parts in the assembly then you’re asking for it. In this case I don’t even need to do the calculations. I can see that to torque the hardware correctly you will soon dislodge the taper just by the fact that the upper nut is larger than the bottom. At that point it’s just a mater of time before the cam loads from the spacer on the spindle work the thing apart.

Factory tie rods are forged not cast….way stronger than 303. 4340 tie rods???? Better be post heat treated after machining. Try taking a file to it, it shouldn’t be able to cut if it was heat treated and what a waste for a tension compression part. And again the same indeterminate structure on the outer

Ok I get that,I have delt with plenty of engineers some right some wrong.Untill the part is stress tested you can't make a judgment of what is safe and what is not.I could very well be unsafe but on the other hand it may be safe.So to pass judgment on a part publicly that you yourself feels is unsafe is WRONG period do you not get that.Yes I have the kit on my truck and it will be my decision weather I drive it nd think it is safe.I WILL NOT MAKE MY DECISION ONE ONE PERSONS OPINON.I also am not mad its a supporting vendor you are to and should have enough industry respect to act like it I don't think you are.imo .Believe it or not your company is not the only one in the game so you should quit acting like you are the only authority on this subject.your not.

 

[Hockster]

Sure... Notice the different size of the Add hardware top and bottom.. and then re-read this -

"The other no-no in both those spacers is pulling a taper into the spindle and then pulling back on it when the other hardware is installed. It’s called an “indeterminate structure” and unless an EXTENSIVE amount of engineering goes into it calculating compressive and tensile deflection in all the parts in the assembly then you’re asking for it. In this case I don’t even need to do the calculations. I can see that to torque the hardware correctly you will soon dislodge the taper just by the fact that the upper nut is larger than the bottom. At that point it’s just a mater of time before the cam loads from the spacer on the spindle work the thing apart."

Ok thanks for the pictures..Now I can see the difference between them. The way you had it it looks as if it was the same setup just a big smaller...

 

[SDHQ]

Ok I get that,I have delt with plenty of engineers some right some wrong.Untill the part is stress tested you can't make a judgment of what is safe and what is not.I could very well be unsafe but on the other hand it may be safe.So to pass judgment on a part publicly that you yourself feels is unsafe is WRONG period do you not get that.

"In this case I don’t even need to do the calculations. I can see that to torque the hardware correctly you will soon dislodge the taper just by the fact that the upper nut is larger than the bottom."

Not from me but an offroad suspension engineer. And don't forget you are trusting the engineering on a kit that has these issues:

The mfg has been advertising and selling this kit (upper arm & tie rods) since the beginning of the year.

The kit had the wrong size inner sleeves installed in the upper arms.

The kit had the wrong size (undersized) bolts installed in the upper arm holding the arm to the frame.

The kit has a 7 1/2" long bolt / spacer combo installed holding the arm to the spindle that is unsafe.

The mfg incorrectly stated that their tie rods are stronger than the stock units.

The mfg incorrectly stated that this kit with the stock installed gained 2" of travel.

The mfg incorrectly stated that this kit with an aftermarket coil over installed would gain 3" of travel.

The kit with either the King coil overs or the spacer and factory coil over will cause bind on this upper arm.

The mfg has come on here and stated that all they are going to do is fix the angle of the cup in the upper arm.

The mfg has not stated if they have the proper insurance to cover the manufacturing of a suspension system.

 

[Voodoo]

I understand that. I have talked with a few people in your industry sent pictures to them and got their opinions.I will forward my findings to ADD.

Why do you need to defend ADD?? Cant they act on there own??

 

[Hockster]

Why do you need to defend ADD?? Cant they act on there own??

SDHQ has a few skeletons in their closet... Asking questions about this is needed...

 

[SDHQ]

SDHQ has a few skeletons in their closet... Asking questions about this is needed...

Here is the history between the shops...

I have known Jarod's father and brother for 10 years. In that 10 years we have done plenty of business back and forth, they do great transmission work and I refer everyone I can to them. To this day, in fact just yesterday, I send the two of them all the work I can.

Jarod would often come into my shop over the last couple years and purchased fabrication parts i.e.. heims, bungs, tabs, mis-alignment spacers. We have the largest assortment of fabrication parts in Arizona, all of which are made in the USA. Jarod would often try and get me to match our tab prices of those he was buying that were not mfg'ed in the USA. That and the fact that he didn't think another shop should be producing bumpers for the Raptor severed our business relationship.

Jarod retaliated against my shop by telling anyone who would listen that I copied his bumper designs.

I was a voice in the "seamed tube wrongly built bumper". Add posted pictures of a fully welded bumper installed on a Raptor. The bumper was raw you you could clearly see that all the seams on the seamed tube we on the out side of all the bends. To bend the tube like this puts more stress on the seam and makes it a weaker point if the front of the bumper was hit. Jarod did not appreciate being called out on that. Jarod cleared it all up by explaining that his apprentice put the bumper together wrongly and Jarod then welding the entire bumper. Jarod knew of the issue and said the bumper was only being used for mock-up. He then had the thread deleted.

Jarod also commented on my long travel system. He attempted to discredit my shop because he thought that someone else welded up the arms and spindles. He did not realize that my fabricators drove the 1/2 mile over to Foutz's shop and did work on our set up there. He then attempted to discredit my shop because he claimed Foutz built the long travel for us. In reality it was a collaboration.

So there you have it... Our history.

 

[Scottysspeedshop]

Why do you need to defend ADD?? Cant they act on there own??

I am not defending ADD they can defend themselves.IMO the way this was done is wrong.If their is indeed a problem with what ADD installed I will be the first one to let you guys know thats it call it what you want.I believe in industry respect and their is a right way and a wrong way to do things.That itself is part of the reason I took my truck to ADD.They don't get on a soap box saying look at me thats it.If their is a problem I am sure it will be fixed.And on the history yes their is more that what has been stated by SDHQ but its not my place to get into that.

 

[SDHQ]

I am not defending ADD they can defend themselves.IMO the way this was done is wrong.If their is indeed a problem with what ADD installed I will be the first one to let you guys know thats it call it what you want.I believe in industry respect and their is a right way and a wrong way to do things.That itself is part of the reason I took my truck to ADD.They don't get on a soap box saying look at me thats it.If their is a problem I am sure it will be fixed.

"industry respect"... To me safety trumps that... Safety is he reason I did this... I am not on here trying to sell my goods to you.. I am ok if each and everyone of the members who have a problem with me bringing up a safety concern never do business with me or my company, ever... I am ok with you guys adding a line in your signature on here that reads "**** SDHQ. He found a safety issue and decided to hop on a soap box to bring it to light. Who is he to try and bring something to light that no one else wanted to publicly call out. and the owners an *******"

If you read Add's response they have only said that they will modify the angle of the uniball arm. If I made the phone call to them and told them all the safety issues with their kit just like I did on the forums, why would they have done anything different than say they will modify the angle of the uniball cup? This does not fix the safety problem.. Hence my "soap box".

 

[Voodoo]

I am not defending ADD they can defend themselves.

IMO the way this was done is wrong.

If their is indeed a problem with what ADD installed I will be the first one to let you guys know thats it call it what you want.

1) Then why did you send stuff off to a engineer to have them look at it??

2) Sorry but in my short life working on class 1 and trophy trucks I would have to be blind not to notice, I could still spot that problem even without my background in offroad racing.

3) Thank you