Safety check if you have an aftermarket front “Suspension System”

[Scottysspeedshop]

It all boils down to one opinion SDHQ and you seem to want to say one companies product (that you don't care for)is not safe but say the one you sell is . To me that doesn't say to much .Kind of like tip toeing through a mine field one to many times and JMHO I learned along time ago (I have been in business 25+years) not to burn bridges with competitors sooner or later you may have to to business with them for one reason or another.I still say a phone call could have taken care of all this.I bet you if you found a problem with one of the parts you sell from another vendor you would not have publicly blasted them but would have made a call.jmo

 

[SDHQ]

It all boils down to one opinion SDHQ and you seem to want to say one companies product (that you don't care for)is not safe but say the one you sell is . To me that doesn't say to much .Kind of like tip toeing through a mine field one to many times and JMHO

LOL...

Here again is the statement from an offroad suspension engineer... Not from SDHQ



Anybody stating that they are getting more travel with a spacer lift is false. The shock is both the bump and droop stop. You only get as much travel as the shaft and motion ratio will allow, it’s just in another range in reference to the chassis (lift). May as well just put a sub frame kit on it at that point.

As for 4142 HT, you can easily outperform an exotic material with just a small dimensional change. Geometry wins over material hands down and that spacer is ****ing scary. The other no-no in both those spacers is pulling a taper into the spindle and then pulling back on it when the other hardware is installed. It’s called an “indeterminate structure” and unless an EXTENSIVE amount of engineering goes into it calculating compressive and tensile deflection in all the parts in the assembly then you’re asking for it. In this case I don’t even need to do the calculations. I can see that to torque the hardware correctly you will soon dislodge the taper just by the fact that the upper nut is larger than the bottom. At that point it’s just a mater of time before the cam loads from the spacer on the spindle work the thing apart.

Factory tie rods are forged not cast….way stronger than 303. 4340 tie rods???? Better be post heat treated after machining. Try taking a file to it, it shouldn’t be able to cut if it was heat treated and what a waste for a tension compression part. And again the same indeterminate structure on the outer

 

[Hockster]

It all boils down to one opinion SDHQ and you seem to want to say one companies product is safe but say the one you sell is not.To me that doesn't say to much .Kind of like tip toeing through a mine field one to many times and JMHO

You hit the nail on the head there buddy... It is SDHQ's opinion that their product is safer because they have a off road engineer say it is... Ha ha ha.. I know for fact that neither one is really the safer way to go. The only way to be safe is to design a longer knuckle...

 

[SDHQ]

I understand quite a few of you are upset because it is a sponsor of this board who is the MFG. That should not change anything.

So again to state the facts that some of you seem to be overlooking in the engineering of the suspension system that is in question and has been sold to end users-

The mfg has been advertising and selling this kit (upper arm & tie rods) since the beginning of the year.

The kit had the wrong size inner sleeves installed in the upper arms.

The kit had the wrong size (undersized) bolts installed in the upper arm holding the arm to the frame.

The kit has a 7 1/2" long bolt / spacer combo installed holding the arm to the spindle that is unsafe.

The mfg incorrectly stated that their tie rods are stronger than the stock units.

The mfg incorrectly stated that this kit with the stock installed gained 2" of travel.

The mfg incorrectly stated that this kit with an aftermarket coil over installed would gain 3" of travel.

The kit with either the King coil overs or the spacer and factory coil over will cause bind on this upper arm.

The mfg has come on here and stated that all they are going to do is fix the angle of the cup in the upper arm.

The mfg has not stated if they have the proper insurance to cover the manufacturing of a suspension system.



Would you guys rather see a failure and potential injury before speaking up?

I guess if I am the only one here to see a problem with the engineering and sale of an unsafe system to the end user then so be it...

 

[SDHQ]

You hit the nail on the head there buddy... It is SDHQ's opinion that their product is safer because they have a off road engineer say it is... Ha ha ha.. I know for fact that neither one is really the safer way to go. The only way to be safe is to design a longer knuckle...

What would designing a longer knuckle do?

The reason people go with aftermarket upper arms on the raptor is strength. With either the Camburg or Toatal Chaos arm you are getting a uniball in place of the factory ball joint.

The whole spacer bolt thing that is on the Add suspension is their own design. The whole getting more travel out of it is a Add thing.

 

[SDHQ]

It all boils down to one opinion SDHQ and you seem to want to say one companies product (that you don't care for)is not safe but say the one you sell is . To me that doesn't say to much .Kind of like tip toeing through a mine field one to many times and JMHO I learned along time ago (I have been in business 25+years) not to burn bridges with competitors sooner or later you may have to to business with them for one reason or another.I still say a phone call could have taken care of all this.I bet you if you found a problem with one of the parts you sell from another vendor you would not have publicly blasted them but would have made a call.jmo

If you still don't understand the binding of the suspension with the Add coil over spacer installed...

http://www.bilsteinus.com/fileadmin/user_upload/user_upload_us/pdfs/Bil_LevShks_WebArticle.pdf

The reason it is dangerous on the Add setup is the design of their upper arm and 7 1/2" bolt spacer thing.

 

[Hockster]

If you still don't understand the binding of the suspension with the Add coil over spacer installed...

http://www.bilsteinus.com/fileadmin/user_upload/user_upload_us/pdfs/Bil_LevShks_WebArticle.pdf

The reason it is dangerous on the Add setup is the design of their upper arm and 7 1/2" bolt spacer thing.

How about posting a picture of the camburg in an arm and set them next to each other like you have the add's?

 

[SDHQ]

How about posting a picture of the camburg in an arm and set them next to each other like you have the add's?

Sure... Notice the different size of the Add hardware top and bottom.. and then re-read this -

"The other no-no in both those spacers is pulling a taper into the spindle and then pulling back on it when the other hardware is installed. It’s called an “indeterminate structure” and unless an EXTENSIVE amount of engineering goes into it calculating compressive and tensile deflection in all the parts in the assembly then you’re asking for it. In this case I don’t even need to do the calculations. I can see that to torque the hardware correctly you will soon dislodge the taper just by the fact that the upper nut is larger than the bottom. At that point it’s just a mater of time before the cam loads from the spacer on the spindle work the thing apart."

 

[Scottysspeedshop]

I understand that. I have talked with a few people in your industry sent pictures to them and got their opinions.I will forward my findings to ADD.Your intentions may be good your delivery method not so good.It is a direct reflection on you and your business and in the state the economy is in, you may want to rethink how you delt with this.Maybe you have plenty of customers now but it may not be so in the future.Their are other vendors on this forum and have not blasted away at this.You have had bad publicity before and am sure you didn't like it if Im wrong so be it.After all it is your image and your business at the end of the day,for the record this is my opinion alone
.It was hard to see the bottom of the hardware in the other picture.Thanks for the comparison of the arms.

 

[SDHQ]

I understand that I have talked with a few people in your industry sent pictures to them and got their opinions.I will forward my findings to ADD.Your intentions may be good your delivery method not so good.It is a direct reflection on you and your business and in the state the economy is in, you may want to rethink how you delt with this.Maybe you have plenty of customers now but it may not be so in the future.Their are other vendors on this forum and that look at this forum and have not blasted away at this.You have had bad publicity before and am sure you didn't like it if Im wrong so be it.After all it is your image and your business at the end of the day,for the record this is my opinion alone
.

Thanks for your input.

I don't rub everyone the right way... I am ok with that.. The way I handle my business now is the same way I have handled it when I started my own shop 12+ years ago... When a customer comes here they know what they are getting... They never have to worry about leaving my parking lot unsafe...

As far as the economy goes... I am fortunate to have a busy shop, most of my 18 person staff has the opportunity to work overtime because of it... We have weathered the hard times because of our commitment in the work we put out there...