I know your territory and can tell you that you can't hide from the width. Brush and pin stripping is one thing, but if you are truly in skinny, rocky terrain section you'll find that one side of the Raptor will typically be in a considerably less tracked and rougher patch. The real problem is if there just isn't enough trail before the edge. Most of the time not unmanageable, just takes a little longer to navigate. And with the time you saved bombing through the washes to get there you're net net travel time will be less.
Ride Comparison & Capability - Gen 1 Vs. Put Together 5.0 F-150
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Could be. The Ranger and the S-10 were such incredible piles compared to the Toys back in the 80s and 90s that I completely lost interest in either. When they were disco'd, I figured I knew why. Explorers were so bad that I was afraid riding in them, and neither it or the Bronco II could hold a candle to the 4Runner. I bought an '85 Toy the same year my buddy bought an '85 Ranger. The Toy went a hard quarter million with a fuel pump failure. Bill replaced every single piece of the drive train at least once under warranty, save the engine, in the first 49k miles. Then he dumped it in fear, 1k before the warranty ended. It stranded him in the desert. It stranded him in a crappy part of Denver in the middle of the night. It left him hanging a dozen times. He has driven nothing but Toyota since. It's pretty funny, I bought my '91 Toyota sight unseen because I liked the '85 so much. I was very disappointed. I swore never to ever buy again without shopping around first. And I've never bought another Toy, as they always seem to come up short. Bill doesn't understand. He worships Toyota. But he is nearing a quarter million on his current ride, so I don't have much room to criticize him.
I did like my Frontier, although I agree after 15 years without a change that it's very dated. I had a Dakota in '98 that was fine until the front end fell off.
My perception, which may be wrong, especially today, is that US badges cheaped out and delivered small trucks that were barely OK on the highway and would explode faster than a Subaru if you actually took them very far off road. My other perception is that the Japanese just don't understand big pickups and rely on copying old designs because they don't know what customers want.Richard Hinsley
Full Access Member
Could be. The Ranger and the S-10 were such incredible piles compared to the Toys back in the 80s and 90s that I completely lost interest in either. When they were disco'd, I figured I knew why. Explorers were so bad that I was afraid riding in them, and neither it or the Bronco II could hold a candle to the 4Runner. I bought an '85 Toy the same year my buddy bought an '85 Ranger. The Toy went a hard quarter million with a fuel pump failure. Bill replaced every single piece of the drive train at least once under warranty, save the engine, in the first 49k miles. Then he dumped it in fear, 1k before the warranty ended. It stranded him in the desert. It stranded him in a crappy part of Denver in the middle of the night. It left him hanging a dozen times. He has driven nothing but Toyota since. It's pretty funny, I bought my '91 Toyota sight unseen because I liked the '85 so much. I was very disappointed. I swore never to ever buy again without shopping around first. And I've never bought another Toy, as they always seem to come up short. Bill doesn't understand. He worships Toyota. But he is nearing a quarter million on his current ride, so I don't have much room to criticize him.
I did like my Frontier, although I agree after 15 years without a change that it's very dated. I had a Dakota in '98 that was fine until the front end fell off.
Heres my 2 cents.
I was in a similar situation. Either keep my 2014 3.5l ecoboost f150 and continue upgrading (already had leveling kit with 33s) or switch to the raptor which was considerably more expensive. I did my dues and researched everything I needed to know and what my plans were for the future. First things first, you gotta ask yourself a few questions. Do you go off-road a lot? Do you like to drive fast off-road? How often you plan on driving off road?
If the answer is a lot, then I highly recommend a raptor. I know you said you go hunting a lot and to be honest, with that answer, both trucks are perfectly capable and suited for the task. I've driven my raptor for a few months now and the size difference between a raptor and regular f150 is hardly noticable on highway. The size only really starts to get you when it comes to parking lots, garages, and alleyways. Even with the extra 3 inches on each side, the 360 cameras make easy work of any situation you may get stuck in. Now let's go back to the 3 inches. Everyone knows raptors are wider because of the suspension. Longer travel suspension need this accommodation and it's something you cant simply add to a regular f150 without doing a total rehaul. This was one of the biggest reasons I switched over to the raptor along with the tech. I myself dont go off roading often but when i do, i like to push things to the limit and the raptor let's me have fun even though its stock. Now I cant say about a fully modded f150 with tricked out suspension. I would bet the performance may be better but at what cost? Not to mention you'll never get the travel of a raptor in a regular f150 without increasing width.
I was in a similar situation. Either keep my 2014 3.5l ecoboost f150 and continue upgrading (already had leveling kit with 33s) or switch to the raptor which was considerably more expensive. I did my dues and researched everything I needed to know and what my plans were for the future. First things first, you gotta ask yourself a few questions. Do you go off-road a lot? Do you like to drive fast off-road? How often you plan on driving off road?
If the answer is a lot, then I highly recommend a raptor. I know you said you go hunting a lot and to be honest, with that answer, both trucks are perfectly capable and suited for the task. I've driven my raptor for a few months now and the size difference between a raptor and regular f150 is hardly noticable on highway. The size only really starts to get you when it comes to parking lots, garages, and alleyways. Even with the extra 3 inches on each side, the 360 cameras make easy work of any situation you may get stuck in. Now let's go back to the 3 inches. Everyone knows raptors are wider because of the suspension. Longer travel suspension need this accommodation and it's something you cant simply add to a regular f150 without doing a total rehaul. This was one of the biggest reasons I switched over to the raptor along with the tech. I myself dont go off roading often but when i do, i like to push things to the limit and the raptor let's me have fun even though its stock. Now I cant say about a fully modded f150 with tricked out suspension. I would bet the performance may be better but at what cost? Not to mention you'll never get the travel of a raptor in a regular f150 without increasing width.
Lol, I’ve thought about it. The RZR is in the works, but that will be a summer toy only and for summer scouting as well!
I appreciate the input. It’s important to mention that hunting is all my next truck will be used for besides driving the highway or road trips with my wife. I have a 2013 F-150 Platinum 5.0 as a company truck with 258K miles and it runs like a top, so the need for a daily driver isn’t necessary. As I said in my original post, in town or on the highway width doesn’t bother me at all. More so in the trees is my concern. In the open valley’s where I’ll go fast (50-70) it doesn’t even concern me a little bit and I welcome it actually.
As it pertains to suspension, I’m not trying to obtain the same travel as a Raptor or long travel for that matter at all. I just want a ride that will be sufficient and comfortable for what I do. If I do the install myself, I’m somewhere around $3,900-$5,400 in parts alone to get the F-150 where I want it. Hence why the Raptor is again the better choice financially because I can get away with just revalving the stock 2.5’s and probably be happy with it. I fully understand suspension and how things function, I’ve just never had the chance to experience certain items first hand. But, we’ll see!
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It sounds like you're referring to the S10 and Rangers of the 80's, back when GM had the old 2.8 V6 and Ford had the 2.9 Cologne V6. Neither were very good engines. Once the S10 got the 4.3 and the Ranger got the 3.0 Vulcan and 4.0 OHV, both were vastly improved trucks. I see you're in Colorado, maybe they don't use road salt and chemicals there in winter? In the North East and here in MI, the frames and bodies on Tacos, 4Runners, and Tundras rot out at the sight of bad weather. You don't see any of their trucks from the 80's or 90's on the road unless they're Cali or Florida vehicles. They've had so many recalls and lawsuits for frame rot that I've lost track. Even their 2010 and newer models are needing frames replaced. They tried to blame it on an American supplier (Dana Corp), but their story fell apart when 4Runners - which are built in Japan and don't use Dana components - started rotting out almost as fast as Tacos.
As far as only a fuel pump replacement in a quarter million miles...never needed a water pump? Timing belt? Ball joints or tie rod ends? Wheel bearings? Axle seals? Valve adjustment? Cam or crank seal? Oil pan gasket? TPS sensor? Exhaust replacement? I ask because I'm quite familiar with those vehicles. If I remember correctly '85's were still solid front axle; IFS came out in '88? The 3VZ-E's were notorious for head gasket failure; they'd pour coolant out of the exhaust ports faster than you could fill the radiator.
I did like my Frontier, although I agree after 15 years without a change that it's very dated. I had a Dakota in '98 that was fine until the front end fell off.
How did the front end "fall off"? Dakotas certainly never have the best front end parts (tie rods and ball joints), but once they were upgraded with high quality aftermarket parts like Moog, they were fine. Your perception may be skewed by some bad personal experience. My experience has certainly been different, and I've serviced countless vehicles over the course of my career from almost every brand. They all require maintenance and repairs, the extent and cost of both vary. Full size pickups do not exist in any major market outside the North America, which as you mention is why the Japanese have no clue how to build one. As far as frontiers and Nissan SUVs/trucks in general, one of the most common failures is the transmission cooler leaking trans fluid into the coolant. It destroys the transmission as well as all of the cooling system components, since the trans fluid causes all of the rubber hoses, gaskets, and seals to swell up.
As far as your friend, Toyota people are a strange bunch. It's as if they always need to reassure themselves of their purchase by telling everyone about how much smarter they are and how much more "reliable" their vehicle is. Neither, of course, it true. My Grand Cherokee has 212,000 miles on it and it's never needed anything more than maintenance and light repair. Do I shout from my rooftop that everyone should by one? No, because I do not need to prove to anyone that I'm confident in my vehicle purchase or persuade anyone that it's the best vehicle that's ever existed. When someone makes claims like that, it's typically a sign of low intelligence and/or insecurity. Which, apparently, is the large majority of Toyota buyers.
GCATX
King Dingaling
Did you end up marrying Bill?Could be. The Ranger and the S-10 were such incredible piles compared to the Toys back in the 80s and 90s that I completely lost interest in either. When they were disco'd, I figured I knew why. Explorers were so bad that I was afraid riding in them, and neither it or the Bronco II could hold a candle to the 4Runner. I bought an '85 Toy the same year my buddy bought an '85 Ranger. The Toy went a hard quarter million with a fuel pump failure. Bill replaced every single piece of the drive train at least once under warranty, save the engine, in the first 49k miles. Then he dumped it in fear, 1k before the warranty ended. It stranded him in the desert. It stranded him in a crappy part of Denver in the middle of the night. It left him hanging a dozen times. He has driven nothing but Toyota since. It's pretty funny, I bought my '91 Toyota sight unseen because I liked the '85 so much. I was very disappointed. I swore never to ever buy again without shopping around first. And I've never bought another Toy, as they always seem to come up short. Bill doesn't understand. He worships Toyota. But he is nearing a quarter million on his current ride, so I don't have much room to criticize him.
I did like my Frontier, although I agree after 15 years without a change that it's very dated. I had a Dakota in '98 that was fine until the front end fell off.
Your story is very confusing, we need closure.
I did have to adjust the valves and fill the hubs with grease every 30k, but that was routine maintenance. I thought the 22RE had a timing chain, but it never failed, so I don't know. Now that you ask, I remember changing the oxygen sensor a time or two. No real rust problems in Colorado and California.
Yeah, ball joints were unsafe at about 50k. Wheel didn't fall off, mostly because of luck.
You're right about my perceptions being off because of the small sample. Since you fix lots of cars, yours will be more accurate. One potential blind spot that you might have(or might not) is one of selection bias. ie you only see the cars that break. If a population of cars contains twice as many of car A as car B and you see them in the shop at equal rates, they would appear to be of about the same reliability to you unless you adjusted for the number of each that doesn't show up in the shop. Just a thought.
Did you end up marrying Bill?
Your story is very confusing, we need closure.
No, but we still keep in touch. I've known him almost 40 years. When we go somewhere as a group of six, he always drives his ginormous Toyota. Sequoia, maybe? 230k on it, but he's talking about a replacement. His kids are finishing college and he doesn't need the bus any more. Plus it's nickel and diming him, but he won't admit it.
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