Rando thoughts brought on by C8 Corvette

[baugustine]

Price of the vehicle is based on a few core things: (1) how much development $ went into the platform to get it to production vs. the sales #s the marketing dpt estimated to calculate ROI. (2) Actual cost of the vehicle when you bolt everything on. (3). Obscene profit on models that will have non-normative demand.

A quick perusal of this Forum will net lots of discussions on what people actually paid (vs MSRP) which will also apply to the new C8. The market for a C8 is way bigger than a McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari, etc, so they can take a lower margin per unit. I would also think the C8 has more interested buyers than a Raptor. I don’t know Production #s (someone here I’m sure does), but Ford sold just shy of 1M F150s last year, and a small % were Raptors. Just saying.

 

[zombiekiller]

So my brother just ordered 2 new C8 Corvettes this week, a black car for right away and that funky blue color that will be delayed availability. He is seriously considering cancelling a McLaren 600LT order that he has in since he was less than amused when his 720S caught fire on the track. I am also getting seriously close to ordering up a C8 for the wife since I can get employee pricing through him (not a GM employee but he has bought at least 10 'Vettes in the last five years so I guess they just hook him up). I figure the 1LT pack would be enough equipment and she won't need the Z51 pack so maybe $61-62K MSRP and then $55K at employee pricing, give or take.

Now for the Raptor content: Is it just me or has GM kind of shaken up the entire enthusiast market in terms of pricing? I was going to pick up a 2020 911 Carrera to replace my 2015, but a base MSRP of $97K has me baffled. I kind of lump the Raptor in with all the cars that suddenly look very, very overpriced for what they are. Sure Ford, $60K for a hotted up F-150 sounds totally reasonable when I can get a mid-engined supercar for the same price. Not that the Raptor is alone. Shelby GT350 bases higher than the Corvette. LOL. Only a total Ford fan boi idiot would choose the 3900lb Mustang over the C8. Toyota Supra? At $55K for the loaded example, they have got to be kidding. And please check everything the C8 has as standard equipment for $60K before you start making an argument defending the Raptor as a value proposition.

Anyone else feel like this is a paradigm shift?

TL;DR New Corvette exposes Raptor as horrifically overpriced

question: have you actually driven a GT350 at the track? Its faster than a 458 and WAY more fun to drive. It also has a motor that GM doesnt have a chance of replicating the magic from.

Say all you want, but IMO, the FPC voodoo was ford showing the world that their balls are bigger. It is also an amazing motor that nothing else sounds like. (I've had 3 gt350s to date).

 

[BBLV]

This might be the dumbest thread I've ever read. If you're using the Raptor as only an on-road vehicle then you're doing it wrong. Go buy a standard F150 and add the C8 to your stable....

I love my Raptor. Hard to beat the rush of mashing the go pedal at 80mph on a rough dirt road... And then grabbing a pile of 4x8 sheets of plywood from the hardware store, then pulling up to a business meeting in comfort. That's how I use my Raptor and wouldn't trade it for anything.

I'd love to add a C8 Z06 when it's released, but even the thought of a C8 for Raptor swap is retarded.

 

[BIG TIME BALLER]

I have never taken my Raptor off-road. I’m sure it’s incredibly fun... but I would venture that a really high percentage of Raptor owners have never taken their truck off-road or maybe just once or twice, or only down a dirt road, or across a field, or onto the beach perhaps... any truck could manage just fine. Yes, there are a few that bang their truck around on the weekends... but far fewer than street only owners.

The majority of people own the Raptor for the cool factor... because it is the top dog right now.

Yea you can list all the practical reasons for owning the Raptor, but just plug an XLT or Lariat into that equation and it fills the need just fine.

Now on to the C8... same thing. Very few will track it, most will just cruise the streets for the cool factor and again cuz it’s top dog.

This is where you get the comparison... most owners of these performance vehicles, regardless of application, only use them on the streets.

So street only Raptor owners will most definitely cross shop the C8.... and for that price, you can add a cheap truck for the practical stuff.

 

[RUFdriver]

As a lifelong Porsche guy the new Corvette is very attractive to me. The desirable 911's are now at Ferrari and McLaren money. As the C8 rolls out in the next few years I think we'll see performance models priced around $100K. Given that a "decent" 911 for track use is now $150K and up that's a pretty good steal

Or i could just stay w/ Porsche and buy the new GT4 for similar money.

Decisions, decisions.

No Raptor content here other than I use my Raptor to tow my race car ('04 Porsche GT3 track only) to the track.

I totally agree, also a lifelong Porsche enthusiast, they are pricing themselves out of the market like in the ‘90s and that nearly killed them. Porsche now uses the Ferrari model for sales, the “special “ 911s (GT cars and Turbos) are not available. Even though I’ve purchased many new Porsches over the years , mostly from the same dealer, they wanted a $30k “premium “ just to get on the list. Customer loyalty means nothing anymore.
That new Corvette is awesome, but I cannot believe the price point. I’m sure it will grow rapidly with options and Z06 power.

 

[Scottx]

The biggest problem with all corvettes (after 1982)are all our beautifully paved ohhh sooo smooth perfect roads. Raptor don’t care about perfect roads, pot holes,speed bumps,frost heaves,rubber tire pieces, etc.
Your new c8 value will drop like a rock while the raptor holds value. Even now vettes can be had cheaper than same year raptors and raptors are way harder to find. And probably about 70% take the raptor off road but way less admit it. A vette gets babied a raptor not so much and you see sooo much more.
Nothing’s perfect but I would take a raptor any day and everyday over a c8..
Snow day anyone bad weather you name it raptors are there c8 beware take care. Comparisons are mental ************. Imho
And yes the c8 is a game changer but it’s not the raptors game see Ferrari

 

[Nickshu]

I totally agree, also a lifelong Porsche enthusiast, they are pricing themselves out of the market like in the ‘90s and that nearly killed them. Porsche now uses the Ferrari model for sales, the “special “ 911s (GT cars and Turbos) are not available. Even though I’ve purchased many new Porsches over the years , mostly from the same dealer, they wanted a $30k “premium “ just to get on the list. Customer loyalty means nothing anymore.
That new Corvette is awesome, but I cannot believe the price point. I’m sure it will grow rapidly with options and Z06 power.

Right on man. The good news is that they are going to build a truckload of the new GT4s so they will be as easy to get as the C8.

Given that the C7 Z06 is $120k+ I'd expect similar price points for the higher end C8s when they come out.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[combatninja]

question: have you actually driven a GT350 at the track? Its faster than a 458 and WAY more fun to drive.

A Mustang GT350 is in no way faster than a Ferrari 458. Period. Unless you mean "Faster at killing pedestrians outside of a Cars N Coffee meet" .

I sort of figured that my point would be lost on most of the members of this forum and that seems to be the case here. I am in no way comparing a C8 Corvette and a Ford Raptor on their intended uses, fitness for purpose, optional features, offload ability or looks. I am simply pointing out that the new Corvette has, in one fell swoop, completely recalibrated my Value per Dollar Meter across the entire automotive spectrum. The reason I posted this here is because the Raptor is one of those vehicles that I was giving serious thought to buying but I always had this nagging feeling that it was priced $5K too high. Now I am absolutely sure of that. Ford makes eleven billion F-150s a year and the Raptor shares the vast majority of it's components with the rest of the lineup and the engine is shared across multiple platforms as well. The fact that GM can sell this car, that has a completely bespoke platform (until they bring out some horrible Cadillac version), and said platform is a whole paradigm shift for it's maker, for similar money simply highlights how much Ford is overcharging for the Raptor. As mentioned, it has no real competition so I guess they'll continue to do so. That doesn't make it good value for money, it just makes it well positioned in the marketplace.

I could just as easily be posting the same thing on 30 other automotive boards as the number and types of cars that the new Corvette will undercut is astounding. While the reverberations will certainly be heard loudest in the sportscar/supercar world, I think the entire industry just got put on notice. A couple of months ago, I could have reasonably seen myself getting a couple of grand off a Raptor and writing that check. I don't think I can say the same thing now. Knowing I could go across town and write that same check for a mid engined supercar with a 495hp naturally aspirated V8 would prevent me from doing so. One doesn't replace the other of course but they are both just toys at the end of the day, neither is a 'need' that anyone has. The value is just not there

 

[McMillan]

The Shelby 1000 is not street legal but is 1250 hp, and as a Shelby insider, they are working on making it street able, but comes at a cost. Current price is 147k, if they stick with the plan even the Veyron will be a joke. Hopefully in 2023 by far the fastest 0-60 and 265 mhp, no other super car will ever touch it.

 

[Jonny V]

So my brother just ordered 2 new C8 Corvettes this week, a black car for right away and that funky blue color that will be delayed availability. He is seriously considering cancelling a McLaren 600LT order that he has in since he was less than amused when his 720S caught fire on the track. I am also getting seriously close to ordering up a C8 for the wife since I can get employee pricing through him (not a GM employee but he has bought at least 10 'Vettes in the last five years so I guess they just hook him up). I figure the 1LT pack would be enough equipment and she won't need the Z51 pack so maybe $61-62K MSRP and then $55K at employee pricing, give or take.

Now for the Raptor content: Is it just me or has GM kind of shaken up the entire enthusiast market in terms of pricing? I was going to pick up a 2020 911 Carrera to replace my 2015, but a base MSRP of $97K has me baffled. I kind of lump the Raptor in with all the cars that suddenly look very, very overpriced for what they are. Sure Ford, $60K for a hotted up F-150 sounds totally reasonable when I can get a mid-engined supercar for the same price. Not that the Raptor is alone. Shelby GT350 bases higher than the Corvette. LOL. Only a total Ford fan boi idiot would choose the 3900lb Mustang over the C8. Toyota Supra? At $55K for the loaded example, they have got to be kidding. And please check everything the C8 has as standard equipment for $60K before you start making an argument defending the Raptor as a value proposition.

Anyone else feel like this is a paradigm shift?

TL;DR New Corvette exposes Raptor as horrifically overpriced

I had my Gen 1 in for an update to the Sync, and wandered over to check out the new Shelby Raptors. The sticker on those is $120,000.00. I spent 45 minutes on the ground rolling around under the truck and under the hood and checking out the “upgraded” electronics.

Bottom line, I didn’t see anything that even came close to justifying a $70,000.00 price bump over what I paid for my rig.

For half that number I can have a suspension that will match up to the Shelby, plus a supercharged v8 that would equal or exceed the v6, and be more reliable to boot.

I don’t see a hundred thousand dollars of value in any other truck on the lot either. Maybe I’m just turning into an old coot...