Rando thoughts brought on by C8 Corvette

[zombiekiller]

A Mustang GT350 is in no way faster than a Ferrari 458. Period. Unless you mean "Faster at killing pedestrians outside of a Cars N Coffee meet" .

I sort of figured that my point would be lost on most of the members of this forum and that seems to be the case here. I am in no way comparing a C8 Corvette and a Ford Raptor on their intended uses, fitness for purpose, optional features, offload ability or looks. I am simply pointing out that the new Corvette has, in one fell swoop, completely recalibrated my Value per Dollar Meter across the entire automotive spectrum. The reason I posted this here is because the Raptor is one of those vehicles that I was giving serious thought to buying but I always had this nagging feeling that it was priced $5K too high. Now I am absolutely sure of that. Ford makes eleven billion F-150s a year and the Raptor shares the vast majority of it's components with the rest of the lineup and the engine is shared across multiple platforms as well. The fact that GM can sell this car, that has a completely bespoke platform (until they bring out some horrible Cadillac version), and said platform is a whole paradigm shift for it's maker, for similar money simply highlights how much Ford is overcharging for the Raptor. As mentioned, it has no real competition so I guess they'll continue to do so. That doesn't make it good value for money, it just makes it well positioned in the marketplace.

I could just as easily be posting the same thing on 30 other automotive boards as the number and types of cars that the new Corvette will undercut is astounding. While the reverberations will certainly be heard loudest in the sportscar/supercar world, I think the entire industry just got put on notice. A couple of months ago, I could have reasonably seen myself getting a couple of grand off a Raptor and writing that check. I don't think I can say the same thing now. Knowing I could go across town and write that same check for a mid engined supercar with a 495hp naturally aspirated V8 would prevent me from doing so. One doesn't replace the other of course but they are both just toys at the end of the day, neither is a 'need' that anyone has. The value is just not there

a 2016 shelby gt350R is 100% faster around a race track than a 458. I have driven both, back to back on the same track multiple times.

The gt350r is more visceral, it is harder to drive than the Ferrari, but it is indeed faster on a 2.75 mile FIA grade 2 track in Louisiana with me behind the wheel ( and also with quite a few of the pro instructors from my home track behind the wheel.

Your point isn't lost. I like fords, I currently own 4. No, I am not a blind follower. The GT350R was an absolutely amazing accomplishment for Ford. It is a special car. The last one I owned had quite a bit of work done to it and was fully track prepped. Even after replacing the suspension with adjustable components and solid bushings or spherical bearings, AND having the motor out, built up and tuned, I was STILL $72K under what my last 911 GT3RS cost me.

I thought the gt350r, once built, for me, was a better track weapon than either a 458 or a gt3RS.

and yes, it was faster, for a ton less money.

I am curious about the new Vette, but just like the gt350r, I want to see one in person and drive one before I pass judgment. I'm not a huge fan of the how the rear end looks in pics.

I also REALLY want GM to do something new and innovative with the driveline. Right wrong or indifferent, why an LS is great for many things unless it sounds like Robby Gordon's trophy truck, it is kind of boring in a GM car for me.

Maybe I am a strange car person, but I don't like Lambos, I've seriously fallen out of love with MacLaren, and I personally think the 488 GTB has lost its soul.


I guess it all really doesn't matter for me anyway. for my money, nothing beats doing over 100 mph in the dirt. I really have no motivating interest to pick up another fast track or streetcar.

Once I'm finally finished with my raptor build, I'll probably buy or build a linked truck or a buggy. As soon as I feel like I've got my offroad driving skills to where my road racing skills, you'll probably catch me racing Norra in class 1 or 1450 ( because I've already signed on to be race support/chase for a 6100 team and if the driver and buggy owner that I'm friendly with decides to do the 1000 this year, and the full SCORE season next year, I've committed to do the say chase duties for him.

anywho, major rambling response. apologies.

 

[BIG TIME BALLER]

Your new c8 value will drop like a rock while the raptor holds value. Even now vettes can be had cheaper than same year raptors and raptors are way harder to find.





The C8 will drop in value... but not as rapidly as standard cars and trucks.

The Gen2 Raptor is not holding value very well already. Sure the 17’s did pretty well, but that was before the 18’ and 19’s started hitting the used market.

Your looking at $10k right off the lot and $5k per year on the Gen2’s (higher MSRP’s Raptors = bigger drops).

 

[zombiekiller]

I had my Gen 1 in for an update to the Sync, and wandered over to check out the new Shelby Raptors. The sticker on those is $120,000.00. I spent 45 minutes on the ground rolling around under the truck and under the hood and checking out the “upgraded” electronics.

Bottom line, I didn’t see anything that even came close to justifying a $70,000.00 price bump over what I paid for my rig.

For half that number I can have a suspension that will match up to the Shelby, plus a supercharged v8 that would equal or exceed the v6, and be more reliable to boot.

I don’t see a hundred thousand dollars of value in any other truck on the lot either. Maybe I’m just turning into an old coot...

If I had it to do over again, I would have just bought a base f-150 and taken the balk half leap from the get-go. you're right about the electronics. If anything, for hard use, all of that crap just gets in the way anyway. I have every anticipation of at some point forgetting to disable traction control and stability control. It will be REALLY interesting to see what happens when the computer tries to intervene and starts applying braking or something while I'm on the gas, through a turn with the ARB locked.

That being said, now that I have my truck close to dialed, I wouldn't trade it, as I still feel like it has a much better smiles per dollar payoff than I've experienced with any vehicle that I've owned, save for one.

 

[ademarco]

Such a dumb comparison. Take your C8 through some whoops or rock climbing and see who makes it down the trail first? Even my Jeep buddies know how good a value the Raptor is with a factory warranty. The first thing Jeep owners do is put 35-37s with a lift and void their warranties. These trucks come stock and tuned with the 35s.

Try taking your family in the C8 flying through the dunes. The current C7 is impressive value as well. Totally different vehicles for different purposes. The C8 will be great once my kids are out of the house. Hopefully the prices are pushed down on the C7 Z06 so I can pick it up for the weekend ride.


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[SlickTrick]

I had a C7 Z06 - it was fun but got boring fast. Once Porsche announced I could get my GT3 in a Manual, I couldn’t sell it fast enough... I felt like Joe dirt driving my Z06. Cool a affordable sports car, we will have any kid with a decent job able to buy one. It’s like comparing a Breitling to a timex..

 

[BIG TIME BALLER]

No one is comparing them directly (like a side by side).

We are not the only ones astonished by its price. There are many articles out there and videos remarking that GM just flipped the ENTIRE automobile industry on its head with this price/value.

Performance cars/sedans/electrics/SUVs/and even Truck buyers now have to consider the C8 (in what appears to be dream car form) when they are weighing their next vehicle purchase.

Do you really want to buy that loaded $45k Camry, that $90k GT500, or how about a $120k M5, $55k Supra, $50 F150...$70k Raptor.

Maybe you do end up with one of them, but the $60k, exotic look, high tech, ultra performance C8 had to enter your mind at some point. And when you come in to look at it, maybe you replace those other options with GM options.

 

[Airkuhl]

What a weird thread. The C8 is awesome, so is the Raptor, and the latest Porsche 911, and the BMW M5 and the Shelby and the 458. We live in a ****** golden age of automotive excess where you can buy a sub $100K car that is faster around a track than million dollar race cars a generation ago, and I drive a full sized sedan with a hatchback that can carry 5 adults and a full Costco run and fully stock will blow away a Veyron 0-60.

I don't care what brand they are, they aren't loyal to us, why bother being loyal to them? I'll buy the best vehicle for my needs, I don't care if it's Ford, Kia, Porsche or Tesla.

Enjoy every second, it won't last.

 

[goblues38]

While technically I could "afford" a new C8 because it is the same money at my Raptor. but in reality, thats not the case.

Most of the people buying a C8, it is a 2nd or 3rd car. While yes, you could daily drive a corvette (i did with my C4 in 1993), anyone who has a family, or needs to get groceries will tell you it's not practical. Therefore, a Corvette is always 2nd or 3rd car material. A Raptor is a special car, that can be driven daily.

GM has the C8 priced the way it is to get more people into the 2nd "fun" car territory. Many people have kids, and need solid family transportation, but want a "fun" car as well. $60k for a C8 is a lot easier to swallow then $120K for a 911. Plus, at those prices, you can drive and enjoy your second car. i know too many people with cool cars who refuse to drive them because they dont want to devalue them.

 

[rtmozingo]

I am simply pointing out that the new Corvette has, in one fell swoop, completely recalibrated my Value per Dollar Meter across the entire automotive spectrum. The reason I posted this here is because the Raptor is one of those vehicles that I was giving serious thought to buying but I always had this nagging feeling that it was priced $5K too high. Now I am absolutely sure of that. Ford makes eleven billion F-150s a year and the Raptor shares the vast majority of it's components with the rest of the lineup and the engine is shared across multiple platforms as well.

Apples to oranges comparison. The Raptor has at least $8k in suspension mods over a regular F150. When you cross shop F150s, it is cheaper to buy a Raptor than buy a similarly equipped F150 and mod it (even if you do the mods yourself at no cost but part price).

Can you build a better offroad truck for cheaper? Sure, but it won't have the niceties an 802a or even an 800a Raptor has.

By this point I've ridden in a wide majority range of specced Raptors...mostly stock to substantially built. I've a pretty good idea what gains are made in what department, and at what cost. Not to detract from modded trucks, especially the well built ones, but you fork over a lot of cash for performance most here won't benefit from. All that to say the stock Raptor is impressively capable unless you are comparing it against a race truck or a UTV, which isn't really a fair comparison, is it?

 

[davidl81]

I think I get the general point the OP is trying to make. The C8 is a huge value when you compare it to a Porche, M6, etc car. 60k base and most likely a little under 70k with Z51 2LT will be amazing. The Raptor is an awesome truck, but the "value" is much harder to place since it is a segment of really only one truck. There is no Ram or Gm Raptor equivalent, or any other truck on the road really. So a 70k Raptor is really hard to be a value in a sense since there is no 90k Porche (or who ever would make an exotic truck) model to compare it to. It still amazes me that Ram (maybe with the Rebel TRX) or GM has no come out with a true competitor to the Raptor. They are basically doing their share holders a disservice by not competing in a segment that Ford has proven to not only create a large market share, but also be extremely profitable. Remember Ford it self spends $0 on incentives on Raptors, where the typical F-150 gets somewhere around $6k+ of Ford incentives per sale.