My truck in shop and dealer isn't giving me loaner. Options?

[smurfslayer]

I know this is the textbook definition of a $hit show, but I would just like to point out that having been through a LL suit, you need to be prepared to wait and have every stealership visit you make going forward become adversarial immediately.

Your VIN gets identified as being subject of a suit, and even routine service results in “extra eyes” being put on your vehicle. Not to help out, but, to see if they can identify any sign of abuse or modification that can extricate the manufacturer from the warranty and the suit as a result.

EVERY repair will be scrutinized by regional reps, delaying even the most simple part swap. I had a regional rep try to run the abuse flag up because they found mud on my truck’s undercarriage. Mud from the dirt road I lived on. Not 4 wheeling mind you, just casual mud from, you know - puddles that happen on dirt roads. NOT that I didn’t off road the truck but the mud these nuts found was literally from a 2 or 3 inch puddle I could have taken a Corvette through. THAT visit lasted a couple days just to have that calm down.

Next, unless you’re backed by an entire firm of lawyers and witnesses - plural, they’re going to try and wait you out, particularly if it’s your only vehicle or you need it for work, etc. Once you sue, the legal guys/gals make a calculated change in customer service strategy to no longer offer loaners, or customer goodwill gestures that other customers may get. Now, if Ben Crump’s firm is representing you, or some other nationally infamous lawyer, different story. OR if you make the local news for example. I knew of a stealership and wounded vet situation that ended up in a lawsuit, and local news picked up the story because the vet was a --LEGIT-- hero. The stealership smartly refused interview requests, as did the manufacturer and regional reps. However, quietly, the vet received a buyback offer within a week. So the legal departments aren’t stuck on stupid.

Before you sign papers, ask yourself - ‘have I done everything i can to work with this crew to get the truck fixed’? Yeah, your posts here indicate you did, but we’re only seeing what you post, and it’s just your side of the story. Be honest with yourself in this evaluation. I’m talking a 3 way meeting with service mangler, owner and you, where you ask the blunt question “guys, have I done everything i can to expedite this? What else can we do to get this truck fixed, fixed correctly and expeditiously? What else can I do to help you guys facilitate the repair?”
That kind of meeting, not the other kind. You need to make these people want to drop what they’re doing and fix your truck, even if they have to turn wrenches themselves.


If you really don’t see another way to resolve this, and there’s no movement from customer service or evidence of movement, you may not have a choice. I hope you do, but from the sounds of it, this is just not a good customer experience and poor customer service.

Good luck.

 

[The Car Stereo Company]

I know this is the textbook definition of a $hit show, but I would just like to point out that having been through a LL suit, you need to be prepared to wait and have every stealership visit you make going forward become adversarial immediately.

Your VIN gets identified as being subject of a suit, and even routine service results in “extra eyes” being put on your vehicle. Not to help out, but, to see if they can identify any sign of abuse or modification that can extricate the manufacturer from the warranty and the suit as a result.

EVERY repair will be scrutinized by regional reps, delaying even the most simple part swap. I had a regional rep try to run the abuse flag up because they found mud on my truck’s undercarriage. Mud from the dirt road I lived on. Not 4 wheeling mind you, just casual mud from, you know - puddles that happen on dirt roads. NOT that I didn’t off road the truck but the mud these nuts found was literally from a 2 or 3 inch puddle I could have taken a Corvette through. THAT visit lasted a couple days just to have that calm down.

Next, unless you’re backed by an entire firm of lawyers and witnesses - plural, they’re going to try and wait you out, particularly if it’s your only vehicle or you need it for work, etc. Once you sue, the legal guys/gals make a calculated change in customer service strategy to no longer offer loaners, or customer goodwill gestures that other customers may get. Now, if Ben Crump’s firm is representing you, or some other nationally infamous lawyer, different story. OR if you make the local news for example. I knew of a stealership and wounded vet situation that ended up in a lawsuit, and local news picked up the story because the vet was a --LEGIT-- hero. The stealership smartly refused interview requests, as did the manufacturer and regional reps. However, quietly, the vet received a buyback offer within a week. So the legal departments aren’t stuck on stupid.

Before you sign papers, ask yourself - ‘have I done everything i can to work with this crew to get the truck fixed’? Yeah, your posts here indicate you did, but we’re only seeing what you post, and it’s just your side of the story. Be honest with yourself in this evaluation. I’m talking a 3 way meeting with service mangler, owner and you, where you ask the blunt question “guys, have I done everything i can to expedite this? What else can we do to get this truck fixed, fixed correctly and expeditiously? What else can I do to help you guys facilitate the repair?”
That kind of meeting, not the other kind. You need to make these people want to drop what they’re doing and fix your truck, even if they have to turn wrenches themselves.


If you really don’t see another way to resolve this, and there’s no movement from customer service or evidence of movement, you may not have a choice. I hope you do, but from the sounds of it, this is just not a good customer experience and poor customer service.

Good luck.

this would possibly work if it wasnt phil long in colorado springs. i had a meeting with them regarding my 4wd issue a couple years ago. they simply didnt care.

 

[GordoJay]

I may be wrong about this and welcome a correction. The way I understand the business model, Phil Long will get paid by Ford to fix that truck. Either I own it or FMC owns it when that happens. They make the same money either way. Other than the hope that I might come in for maintenance, they have no incentive to bust their buns for me.

As to extra scrutiny in the future, I’ll burn that bridge if I come to it. This is a one off right now, not a gremlin that I’m bringing it in for over and over again. If it gets fixed now and a gremlin pops up down the road, I’ll trade it in. I’m not going to put up with a gremlin even if the service department kisses me every time I go in.

 

[smurfslayer]

I may be wrong about this and welcome a correction. The way I understand the business model, Phil Long will get paid by Ford to fix that truck. Either I own it or FMC owns it when that happens. They make the same money either way. Other than the hope that I might come in for maintenance, they have no incentive to bust their buns for me.

I’m paraphrasing from memory here. it’s either warranty work or not. warrant work has a fixed price Ford pays, and as I recall that applies to both diagnosing and repair. I don’t work for them, I’m recollecting from a close friend who worked for a local stealership for 28 years. He was pretty fed up with it at the end because as the cars had gotten way more complex, it was taking longer and longer to troubleshoot and the time was really tight on some of the issues.

So the mechanics themselves may not have the incentive to fix an issue they’ve already gotten all the money they’re going to get. If it’s not a warranty concern, they estimate cost and need to largely abide by the estimate.

I hear you on the gremlin concern, there is very little in life more frustrating.

 

[FordTechOne]

I’m paraphrasing from memory here. it’s either warranty work or not. warrant work has a fixed price Ford pays, and as I recall that applies to both diagnosing and repair. I don’t work for them, I’m recollecting from a close friend who worked for a local stealership for 28 years. He was pretty fed up with it at the end because as the cars had gotten way more complex, it was taking longer and longer to troubleshoot and the time was really tight on some of the issues.

So the mechanics themselves may not have the incentive to fix an issue they’ve already gotten all the money they’re going to get. If it’s not a warranty concern, they estimate cost and need to largely abide by the estimate.

I hear you on the gremlin concern, there is very little in life more frustrating.

What you're saying is essentially correct; Ford pays the dealer a set labor time for the repair (book time) plus any incidentals (M-Time). Many technicians industry wide are discouraged because for decades the labor times were very generous; if they hustled they could easily beat the labor times and often get paid for over double the actual number of hours they were putting in weekly. The dealerships benefited even more; they could bill out the tech's hours at the door rate and pocket everything in excess of the tech's hourly wage. When profitability on the corporate side auto of the industry took a hit in the 2000s, the labor time standards became much more realistic.

What dealership management failed to account for was the decrease in technician wages, since their pay is typically based off of flat rate/book time. They took advantage by allowing the tech to take the hit instead of the service department. Dealers used labor times as an excuse to not fairly compensate technicians, claiming the times were dictated by Ford and therefore that's all they get regardless of the fact that they might spend 30 minutes looking for a car on the lot only to have to dig it out of a snow bank. What they fail to understand is that Ford does not pay technicians...Ford pays the dealer, and the dealer pays the technician. It's the dealer's responsibility to compensate their technicians, who happen to work in the department that generates the most profit for the dealer. Of course the dealers don't like that, because that cuts into their profitability. When your Dealer Principal has a $600K Ford GT and you're a technician getting screwed on labor times, your fight is not with Ford's labor times. It's with your dealer management.

 

[FordTechOne]

I may be wrong about this and welcome a correction. The way I understand the business model, Phil Long will get paid by Ford to fix that truck. Either I own it or FMC owns it when that happens. They make the same money either way. Other than the hope that I might come in for maintenance, they have no incentive to bust their buns for me.

As to extra scrutiny in the future, I’ll burn that bridge if I come to it. This is a one off right now, not a gremlin that I’m bringing it in for over and over again. If it gets fixed now and a gremlin pops up down the road, I’ll trade it in. I’m not going to put up with a gremlin even if the service department kisses me every time I go in.

You'd be correct. The (bad) dealers love to throw FMC under the bus and let them cover the expense of the rental, any extended warranty offer, buyback, buyback "reconditioning", etc. They refuse to accept responsibility for anything, and by law in many states they often don't have to. We can thank the dealership lobbyists for that, they wash their hands of everything and blame the manufacturer regardless of the situation. Dealers aren't even traditional franchises; they are independent distributors who have signed a "Sales & Service agreement". That is why there is so much variability between dealer service compared with your average fast food restaurant franchise; the manufacturer can't enforce the same requirements.

Speaking of which, what is your latest contact with Ford Customer Service? With you buying the truck new and your time out of service due to a parts backorder, they will typically offer an extended warranty to compensate you for your down time and trouble. As @smurfslayer mentioned, calling a lawyer is a one way street. They may or may nor get you some compensation, but either way your name will be smeared as someone who resorts to lawsuits/litigation, which no company wants to deal with.

 

[GordoJay]

...the manufacturer can't enforce the same requirements.

This is a huge problem. It's why everyone hates car dealers and why not matter what brand and model you mention, you're likely to hear a horror story.

Speaking of which, what is your latest contact with Ford Customer Service? With you buying the truck new and your time out of service due to a parts backorder, they will typically offer an extended warranty to compensate you for your down time and trouble.

They extended my warranty to 75k miles. When I talked to them yesterday, he asked what my payment was. When I told him that I had paid cash, he said that he's see what else he could do.

As @smurfslayer mentioned, calling a lawyer is a one way street. They may or may nor get you some compensation, but either way your name will be smeared as someone who resorts to lawsuits/litigation, which no company wants to deal with.

I will never deal with Phil Long again. Since the only Ford dealer in town is Phil Long, I probably won't be driving a Ford if this doesn't work out. Bummer. I love the Raptor.

 

[smurfslayer]

@GordoJay, I know your frustration first hand. I also know, with 100% certainty that but not for stealership mishandling and delays, i would not have been able to file, much less prevail in a lemon lawsuit. I stated as much to their corp counsel in an effort to throw as much shade on the stealership as possible.

If you can ride it out, do it. I can promise you it’s going to be less frustrating than a lawsuit. I know this is a chore, but try not to think about this for like, 2 - 3 days at all. then revisit with some fresh perspective. Act out of intellect and strategy, not anger and frustration.

Like you said earlier, right now it’s a one off. Let’s hope that it is and when this is behind you, it will stay behind you.

 

[FordTechOne]

This is a huge problem. It's why everyone hates car dealers and why not matter what brand and model you mention, you're likely to hear a horror story.

Exactly; there is so much variance between dealerships. The dealer I purchased my truck from was awesome; everything was straight forward, no BS in the sales process. The dealer principal visits every one of his stores each week via helicopter, and it was more than obvious that he held his employees and operations to a higher standard. He was leaving his helicopter landing pad as I departed.

I will never deal with Phil Long again. Since the only Ford dealer in town is Phil Long, I probably won't be driving a Ford if this doesn't work out. Bummer. I love the Raptor.

They sound like a horrible dealer. If only we could establish a database of dealer reviews; the bad ones would (ideally) be out of business within short period of time.

 

[Donmatteo]

I wish there was an option for a factory service center. That would be amazing.