MT's vs AT's, 17's, 18's vs 20's discussion

[adamsrcsf]

Hey guys, would like to hear your feedback on running MT's vs AT tires, as well as going Plus 1, 2 and 3 on wheel diameter? I know going to 20's is sacrilege for most hardcore desert Raptor runners, but my truck isn't seeing much dirt. Yes I will take it off-road a few times a year. My past few sets of tires on previous 4x4 trucks have been 10 ply load E Toyo MT's, and absolutely love them in mud and snow. Heck, love em on the street too! Mainly truck is used to tow a 5,000-ish lb bass boat.

Main reason I'm asking is I've got an almost new set of 35-12.50x20 E load range Toyo MT's I can take of my old truck and put on the Raptor. I'd keep my 17" OEM beadlocks and maybe set them up with AT's? I really don't like AT's and have gotten stuck several times with them. Considering the Maaxis, Mickey T's MT's or Pro Comp (E) too? Just thinkin'...

Thoughts and feedback? I'd like to hear from peeps that have run 18's or 20's offroad in particular. Plus the load range issue. I've hated C rated tires towing and these E's work awesome in tow. Is it cool to run the 20" E's for street and towing?

I cant speak for the wheels, but I just swapped out my BF Goodrich TA KO2 A/Ts for the Mickey T Baja Legend MTZs and am over the moon so far. The M/Ts obviously look more bad ass and do a better job in the dirt and mud, but they are on improvement over KO2s on wet pavement too. I did not trust those things in the rain.

 

[Space Ghost]

Trail Grap's 35x12.5 F-RATED on 20's. Been riding them for almost 3 years offroad, though I'm not blasting 70 MPH on the trails, mostly becuz I hang with non-Rap's. When I have opened 'er up tho, I had no problems with ride harshness nor stability. Originally came with 37 KO2's on stockers, which were definitely a "plush" ride, but the AT tread wasn't really digging very well on some of the climbs. I do notice the tires on 20's are bit stiffer, but the F-rated Graps' have been really tough and took some sharp rocks without punctures or tears.

I'll be upgrading to 37 Ridge Grap's as my Trails' treads are now worn down.

The Trail's are definitely noisy on the street with a warbling "whine"; not like the "hum" of my ancient BFG Mudders way back when.

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IMO, the 37's on OEM rims just didn't fill the wide wells enough, but like 17's vs 20's, it's all subjective opinions, so each their own!

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Good god why the Fs? I only see those used on heavy duty trucks. Are they 2 ply or something? Thats the only reason why my cooper xlt at3s run ok being Es

 

[FishFreak]

Trail Grap's 35x12.5 F-RATED on 20's. Been riding them for almost 3 years offroad, though I'm not blasting 70 MPH on the trails, mostly becuz I hang with non-Rap's. When I have opened 'er up tho, I had no problems with ride harshness nor stability. Originally came with 37 KO2's on stockers, which were definitely a "plush" ride, but the AT tread wasn't really digging very well on some of the climbs. I do notice the tires on 20's are bit stiffer, but the F-rated Graps' have been really tough and took some sharp rocks without punctures or tears.

I'll be upgrading to 37 Ridge Grap's as my Trails' treads are now worn down.

The Trail's are definitely noisy on the street with a warbling "whine"; not like the "hum" of my ancient BFG Mudders way back when.

View attachment 439668

IMO, the 37's on OEM rims just didn't fill the wide wells enough, but like 17's vs 20's, it's all subjective opinions, so each their own!

Looks like you got those F Trail Graps aired down in this pic, and the 35's allow plenty of protective sidewall for slow trail use, is that right?

I won't be desert blasting either, just can't bring myself to thrash on my Screw. I can totally see why you'd run 17's, cuz there's way more tire to squish before hitting rim. That being said, your 35's on 20's look great.

I'm not sure though how 37's on 20's will fill your wheel wells any differently than 37's on 17's? Probably like you said, subjective opinion!

 

[Augster]

Good god why the Fs? I only see those used on heavy duty trucks. Are they 2 ply or something? Thats the only reason why my cooper xlt at3s run ok being Es

At the time 3 years ago, that's all Nitto offered for the 35x12.5x20 Trail Grapplers. I was leary of using such a stiff tire, but eh, it really hasn't been as big an issue as I was fearing at first, like the OP's question. Sure, you can distinguish the stiffer sidewall over an OEM street/AT tire, but overall, it's not significant nor distracting enough to me warrant switching tire brands. And this is my daily driver.

I do still have the OEM with 37 KO2's if for some reason I feel I want a more luxurious smooth and quieter ride on the street.

Anyways, today, Nitto now offer an E-Rated Trail Grappler 35x12.5, in addition to the F-rated, but from what others have commented, there is no distinguishable difference in ride quality between an E- and F-Rated Grappler.

The same situation applies to Ridge Grapplers: currently only offered in E- and F-Rated tires for the 37x12.5x20 tire size.

It all depends upon one's goal: I need more aggressive bite when climbing steep trails, both sandy and rocky, and the Grapplers' have yet to fail me in expectations. With that comes the compromise of stiffer sidewalls and more road noise.

 

[FishFreak]

I cant speak for the wheels, but I just swapped out my BF Goodrich TA KO2 A/Ts for the Mickey T Baja Legend MTZs and am over the moon so far. The M/Ts obviously look more bad ass and do a better job in the dirt and mud, but they are on improvement over KO2s on wet pavement too. I did not trust those things in the rain.

Thank you for the feedback Adam. I'm right there with ya - MT's every day, all the way! I've gotten stuck a few times too many with AT's in wet mud or off-road snow. The fact that they look so badass is icing on the cake! I'm giving Mickey T MT's a hard look after I wear out these nearly new 20" Toyo MT's I'm pulling off my wrecked Duramax.

That's the basis of this thread, is I've got this nice set of E rated 20" Toyo MT's (I love that tire), so may as well get some 20's for the Rap and run these for a minute?! I'll keep my 17 SVT beadlocks and maybe get some BFG's for those in case I'm doing any desert dueling. If the 20's are miserable, I'll sell 'em and go back to 17's when I wear out the Toyo's.

One real question is, I wonder how much heavier the 35" Toyo's on 20's will be vs like D rated Mickey's on 17 bead locks?

 

[FishFreak]

At the time 3 years ago, that's all Nitto offered for the 35x12.5x20 Trail Grapplers. I was leary of using such a stiff tire, but eh, it really hasn't been as big an issue as I was fearing at first, like the OP's question. Sure, you can distinguish the stiffer sidewall over an OEM street/AT tire, but overall, it's not significant nor distracting enough to me warrant switching tire brands. And this is my daily driver.

I do still have the OEM with 37 KO2's if for some reason I feel I want a more luxurious smooth and quieter ride on the street.

Anyways, today, Nitto now offer an E-Rated Trail Grappler 35x12.5, in addition to the F-rated, but from what others have commented, there is no distinguishable difference in ride quality between an E- and F-Rated Grappler.

The same situation applies to Ridge Grapplers: currently only offered in E- and F-Rated tires for the 37x12.5x20 tire size.

It all depends upon one's goal: I need more aggressive bite when climbing steep trails, both sandy and rocky, and the Grapplers' have yet to fail me in expectations. With that comes the compromise of stiffer sidewalls and more road noise.

Agree Augster, I'd rather have the more aggressive MT tread for the times you need it, however, I don't feel like I'm compromising road noise with Toyo MT's - they're quiet as heck! Even when the tread is low, they've got excellent street manners and are very quiet. The key is correct air and rotating them often so they don't get cupped or taper. That's when they get a little noisy.

Is it just my imagination - it seems like there's a great selection of 20" tires for us now, even better than for 17's?

 

[Augster]

Looks like you got those F Trail Graps aired down in this pic, and the 35's allow plenty of protective sidewall for slow trail use, is that right?

Yea, 12ish PSI. I've had them down to even 8ish! There was certainly alot of "rolling" the tire sidewalls, but I guess the stiffer sidewall kept the bead!

I won't be desert blasting either, just can't bring myself to thrash on my Screw. I can totally see why you'd run 17's, cuz there's way more tire to squish before hitting rim. That being said, your 35's on 20's look great.

I like 'em! And I really don't notice the shorter sidewall in terms of ride cushioning; when the trail gets rocky rough, the 2.5 radial inch difference in tire squish (37 on 17s versus 35 on 20s) hasn't made the trail runs that much more unbearable: the rocky/washboard trails are still gonna be rough within the cab. It's the longer travel of the suspension over a stock F-150 that reduces the transferred vertical wheel movements to the chassis that helps smooth out the trail the most. With that said, the next set of tires will be 37's so that'll reduce the difference to a mere 1.5 radial inches

I'm not sure though how 37's on 20's will fill your wheel wells any differently than 37's on 17's? Probably like you said, subjective opinion!

I was referring to width of the wheel! OEM rims are 8.5" width, and OEM style tires are 11.2" width. I currently have 20x9+1mm rims and the Grapplers I have are 12.5" width. That extra +1 inch on the tire along with the half inch wider rim definitely fills the wide flares batter now, and I can't wait until I stuff 37's.

 

[FishFreak]

I was referring to width of the wheel! OEM rims are 8.5" width, and OEM style tires are 11.2" width. I currently have 20x9+1mm rims and the Grapplers I have are 12.5" width. That extra +1 inch on the tire along with the half inch wider rim definitely fills the wide flares batter now, and I can't wait until I stuff 37's.

Good word, that makes more sense. So does that mean your backspace is about 4.25-4.5 inches?

I'll try to find 9" wide wheels with enough backspace so I can still run RPG UCA's if/when that happens, heard you need less than 6" bs.....?

 

[Augster]

Is it just my imagination - it seems like there's a great selection of 20" tires for us now, even better than for 17's?

I know there are more selections now than there were 3 years ago! I was definitely going against the grain in seeking 20 inchers for the trail back then. There was one guy I trailed with once who was damn sure of himself that I'll be punching holes all over my tires with such "puny" sidewalls because he suffered two slashed tires himself on one run; and was running 17's. Well, three years later and not a single puncture nor gash on the hard trails...

 

[FishFreak]

I know there are more selections now than there were 3 years ago! I was definitely going against the grain in seeking 20 inchers for the trail back then. There was one guy I trailed with once who was damn sure of himself that I'll be punching holes all over my tires with such "puny" sidewalls because he suffered two slashed tires himself on one run; and was running 17's. Well, three years later and not a single puncture nor gash on the hard trails...

It's not the fiddle; it's the fiddler ! You know what you're doin' and I'll just guess he was having a bad weekend.

I've been runnin' 20's on my Duramax for almost 20 years, and you kinda get used to them.