Market Adjustment Prices

[RaptorEnthusiast]

That's one way to look at it. Another way to see it is that, as a general rule, laws attempt to preserve certain rights and freedoms by restricting others.

The first 10 amendments to constitutional law were passed to guarantee freedoms by restricting the rights of the government and other citizens. You have the right to life, liberty, and property because the government took away other people's freedom to kill you, imprison you, or steal your shit - not such a bad thing in my opinion.

It's not a binary decision where "laws = bad" or "laws = good" - there's a lot of nuance that goes into governance that your opinion seems to ignore. But sure, there are going to be undesirable side effects.

You and @smurfslayer make valid points. Ultimately Law and Order is necessary. According to the Bible (God's Word), people are just inherently evil. Pride and Greed are the bane of humanity.

This may be a tad off tangent, but I'm comfortable talking about it anyway as a believer in Jesus Christ. The only "laws" that matter are God's commandments. If you think about it, if everyone were God fearing people, they would strive to live the way God instructed them in the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.

But our world today is progressing more towards lawlessness, thus necessitating the introduction of "new" laws in place of the old and of course more restrictions/regulations.

Our liberties get stripped because of us (people). Humanity can't get out of its own way without God.

David

 

[smurfslayer]

If everyone is free to do anything, we have anarchy. Some societal norms are good and should be practiced. The points I was trying to make are

- most people advocate laws without realizing that a law necessarily invokes enforcement and enforcement is force, up to and including lethal force on behalf of the State.
- law making should not be left to legislators. They are generally poor representations of society, and are generally not the most trustworthy lot.
- Nothing says forever like a government entitlement, a law, an agency regulation, ****** and concrete.

We do need some basic rules to keep us from spinning out of control, but, we don’t need the hundreds of thousands of laws on the books now. Legislators, as I mentioned above, don’t like to repeal laws, they like to replace laws with new laws with special interest “easter eggs” in them, particularly as it applies to funding - aka taxes. Some taxes are absolutely critical to maintaining national security and infrastructure, provide for the common good, etc. Others, essentially take our money to fund some boondoggle.

You’re right, it’s not simplistic, the business of making law.

 

[RaptorEnthusiast]

If everyone is free to do anything, we have anarchy. Some societal norms are good and should be practiced. The points I was trying to make are

- most people advocate laws without realizing that a law necessarily invokes enforcement and enforcement is force, up to and including lethal force on behalf of the State.
- law making should not be left to legislators. They are generally poor representations of society, and are generally not the most trustworthy lot.
- Nothing says forever like a government entitlement, a law, an agency regulation, ****** and concrete.

We do need some basic rules to keep us from spinning out of control, but, we don’t need the hundreds of thousands of laws on the books now. Legislators, as I mentioned above, don’t like to repeal laws, they like to replace laws with new laws with special interest “easter eggs” in them, particularly as it applies to funding - aka taxes. Some taxes are absolutely critical to maintaining national security and infrastructure, provide for the common good, etc. Others, essentially take our money to fund some boondoggle.

You’re right, it’s not simplistic, the business of making law.

I agree with you. Problem is those poor society representing legislators are put into office through a "democratic" system that us voters participate in.

It is a civil duty to vote. I'd still rather someone take a side than be a speculator/bystander...that's the travesty.

And to your point about overly complex and exorbitant number of regulations/laws, God's laws in theory are enough. They are simple and few and adequate.

David

 

[shapiroeric]

Seems the OP just wanted to tell us he's had 200 cars and a GT.....

 

[smurfslayer]

That sounds like the makings of a Jeff Foxworthy, “you might be a redneck” schtick...

 

[SilverBolt]

If you don't have a dealer who/where would the vehicles be stocked? Tesla has a current capacity of approximately 2000 vehicles a week. Ford sells more than 2.5 million a year. How would someone in Oregon buy and receive a new Ford? Order online (no test drive), wait for it to be built and shipped? Not real practical. Many vehicles are impulse buys. More than once I have stopped by a dealer "just to look" and drove home something different. Dealerships have a place in the food chain. They are the distributor. They buy in bulk and sell retail (or what the market will bare). MSRP is nothing more than a suggested retail price.

A better solution is a better educated consumer. Know the actual cost of the vehicle before you hit the lot. Refuse to pay ADM's. If no one is willing to pay ADM's the dealer will be forced to lower the prices. The problem is that too many people are willing to pay it or unknowingly pay it. Educate yourself and save some $$.

I didn't order a 2017 Raptor because I knew the dealers would be playing games. I choose to wait until 2018 and I will pay invoice. Like on your GT I don't mind waiting a bit to save a big chunk of $$.

 

[PAW RAPTOR]

If you don't have a dealer who/where would the vehicles be stocked? Tesla has a current capacity of approximately 2000 vehicles a week. Ford sells more than 2.5 million a year. How would someone in Oregon buy and receive a new Ford? Order online (no test drive), wait for it to be built and shipped? Not real practical. Many vehicles are impulse buys. More than once I have stopped by a dealer "just to look" and drove home something different. Dealerships have a place in the food chain. They are the distributor. They buy in bulk and sell retail (or what the market will bare). MSRP is nothing more than a suggested retail price.

A better solution is a better educated consumer. Know the actual cost of the vehicle before you hit the lot. Refuse to pay ADM's. If no one is willing to pay ADM's the dealer will be forced to lower the prices. The problem is that too many people are willing to pay it or unknowingly pay it. Educate yourself and save some $$.

I didn't order a 2017 Raptor because I knew the dealers would be playing games. I choose to wait until 2018 and I will pay invoice. Like on your GT I don't mind waiting a bit to save a big chunk of $$.

I highly doubt you will be "saving" money by waiting till MY2018. Inflation for MY2018 is being rumored to be between $1500-4k depending on who you ask. That would mean even if you could get one at invoice (which I highly doubt), you'd still be paying more than someone who's been enjoying their truck the past year and got it at MSRP. Heck, even in MY2017 inflation has already hit and trucks now are $537 more than what people paid for them that ordered at the end of the summer.

 

[FFCars]

If you don't have a dealer who/where would the vehicles be stocked? Tesla has a current capacity of approximately 2000 vehicles a week. Ford sells more than 2.5 million a year. How would someone in Oregon buy and receive a new Ford? Order online (no test drive), wait for it to be built and shipped? Not real practical. Many vehicles are impulse buys. More than once I have stopped by a dealer "just to look" and drove home something different. Dealerships have a place in the food chain. They are the distributor. They buy in bulk and sell retail (or what the market will bare). MSRP is nothing more than a suggested retail price.

A better solution is a better educated consumer. Know the actual cost of the vehicle before you hit the lot. Refuse to pay ADM's. If no one is willing to pay ADM's the dealer will be forced to lower the prices. The problem is that too many people are willing to pay it or unknowingly pay it. Educate yourself and save some $$.

I didn't order a 2017 Raptor because I knew the dealers would be playing games. I choose to wait until 2018 and I will pay invoice. Like on your GT I don't mind waiting a bit to save a big chunk of $$.

I like the way you think.

I'm going to wait. Just like the first year model of anything, the next year is always better and cheaper to buy.

I'm just tired of state dealer franchise protection laws.