Market abuse

[BalorGrayJax]

All the price gouging laws have to do with commodities, utilities and essentials. A new car is not an essential and would not be included.

I'm of two minds on this subject. I hate the ADM, but I understand the reasoning behind it. Some do it b/c they need to make money somewhere having very little inventory. Some make plenty of money and are just greedy. I am a free market person after all and we all have the wonderful bargaining tool of the word "No"

With that said, I think dealerships are a dying breed. Ford is going to look for every possible way to cut out the middle man between them and the customer. Some will say it's just Ford being greedy, some will say it's b/c in the internet age, it only makes sense. All good arguments. But with that said, I dont think Ford will do anything "except" maybe an example or two of the worst defenders. But you can bet that action will not benefit current buyers in any way.

The dealer model will never go away, it's not feasible. I love the direct to consumer Tesla/Rivian model.. I have the former and the later is on order for 2+ years (R1S). That said, people don't understand the franchise dealer network and how it benefits the consumer and the manufacturer.

1. Recalls. Good luck with that without a dealer and random pop-up tents. When I need to get my Tesla in for anything I don't have many options and those service centers and pop ups would now be a Ford expense.

2. Service centers. Much like recalls, this would be a nightmare situation, and in particular for people in rural America/fleet owners.

3. Just because ADM is marketed by select dealers doesn't mean you don't get stellar deals from others. High volume dealers can sell you a large volume vehicle for your marketshare where a smaller dealer cannot(usually). In a direct to consumer model, the manufacturer controls the price. Do you want to see endless price increases with no discounts and/or rebates?

4. Marketing. Ford markets, but dealers market their territory.

5. Fords expenses would skyrocket, and while they wouldn't have to Floorplan so many franchises anymore, I'm not sure that it's a sustainable model for a manufacturer like VW/GM/Ford. Tesla does it with limited color options that have never changed. 2 interior options. 4 models. How is Ford going to do that with 20+ colors, multiple trims, multiple models? Do you want less choice? Because that's the only way I see it happening.. e.x. in the future you can buy a mustang, bronco, explorer and f150 and you get 5 color choices and 2 trims.

That sucks IMO.

 

[GordoJay]

There are laws out there in some states to protect US against price gouging, although most of these laws were triggered by absurd price increases during natural disasters

If I’m hit by a hurricane and without power for weeks, I’d much rather sit on my butt and wait for FEMA to show up months later to rescue me rather than pay $10k to a guy from somewhere else who had the initiative to fill his pickup with generators and drive all night to gouge me. NOT Those laws make it illegal to help others. Is that really what we want?

Anti gouging laws extend the misery and compound the inequity. But they do protect the government’s monopoly on helping, so they’re always popular with legislators. It’s like communism. The only way to make everyone equal is to make everyone poor.

 

[Tm2525ai]

Just emailed Ford corporate to expose a few local dealerships that are blatantly abusing the market. They are currently building cases against many dealerships that will end up resulting in them losing their future allocations and dealer stock and having them reverted to more honest dealerships that breed long term customer relationships. They said this is across ALL models not just Bronco or f150 lightning. I would implore everyone that see these absurd mark ups to email them as well. I don’t think 2k 5k or even 7.5k for a 37pp is out of the question in today’s market it is after all a free market and it is a SUGGESTED retail price but 10k, 20k, sometimes even more is absolutely absurd and just plain greedy. This doesn’t bode well for customers that have been loyal for many years.

The emails to send these complaints are

[email protected]

[email protected]

Lol, there is a large delaership near me that has marked up every Raptor the they ever received more than $10K
Meanwhile, in Oregon, I paid under MSRP for one of the first Gen1 ever produced, from a smaller dealer.
Though, another dealer in Oregon also chnaregd way over MSRP for everything they sold.

Though, these are different times, also.

 

[belacyrf]

The dealer model will never go away, it's not feasible. I love the direct to consumer Tesla/Rivian model.. I have the former and the later is on order for 2+ years (R1S). That said, people don't understand the franchise dealer network and how it benefits the consumer and the manufacturer.

1. Recalls. Good luck with that without a dealer and random pop-up tents. When I need to get my Tesla in for anything I don't have many options and those service centers and pop ups would now be a Ford expense.

2. Service centers. Much like recalls, this would be a nightmare situation, and in particular for people in rural America/fleet owners.

3. Just because ADM is marketed by select dealers doesn't mean you don't get stellar deals from others. High volume dealers can sell you a large volume vehicle for your marketshare where a smaller dealer cannot(usually). In a direct to consumer model, the manufacturer controls the price. Do you want to see endless price increases with no discounts and/or rebates?

4. Marketing. Ford markets, but dealers market their territory.

5. Fords expenses would skyrocket, and while they wouldn't have to Floorplan so many franchises anymore, I'm not sure that it's a sustainable model for a manufacturer like VW/GM/Ford. Tesla does it with limited color options that have never changed. 2 interior options. 4 models. How is Ford going to do that with 20+ colors, multiple trims, multiple models? Do you want less choice? Because that's the only way I see it happening.. e.x. in the future you can buy a mustang, bronco, explorer and f150 and you get 5 color choices and 2 trims.

That sucks IMO.

You're probably right, it'll be some of hybrid, but there will be direct to consumer plan which by it's very nature could keep dealers in check.

 

[RaptorWhoSaysNI]

All the price gouging laws have to do with commodities, utilities and essentials. A new car is not an essential and would not be included.

I'm of two minds on this subject. I hate the ADM, but I understand the reasoning behind it. Some do it b/c they need to make money somewhere having very little inventory. Some make plenty of money and are just greedy. I am a free market person after all and we all have the wonderful bargaining tool of the word "No"

With that said, I think dealerships are a dying breed. Ford is going to look for every possible way to cut out the middle man between them and the customer. Some will say it's just Ford being greedy, some will say it's b/c in the internet age, it only makes sense. All good arguments. But with that said, I dont think Ford will do anything "except" maybe an example or two of the worst defenders. But you can bet that action will not benefit current buyers in any way.

Ford in the end is just trying to protect their brand. Tesla and all the other EV companies don't have the dealership model so they have the clear advantage with higher profit margins but Ford would have a different advantage if they deleted the sales floor and just keep the service departments. Ford will have a difficult time getting rid of the dealerships all together, it would literally take an act of Congress to change the laws, but they could throw the dealerships an olive branch if they allow them to keep the service departments because most of the dealership's profits come from service, parts, etc. In the end these companies are in the business to build vehicles and make some profit. Capitalism makes the world go around but sometimes it gets a little out of hand and has to be reigned in or the big corporations would just go wild and we as consumers would all be up s h i t s creek.

 

[RaptorWhoSaysNI]

If I’m hit by a hurricane and without power for weeks, I’d much rather sit on my butt and wait for FEMA to show up months later to rescue me rather than pay $10k to a guy from somewhere else who had the initiative to fill his pickup with generators and drive all night to gouge me. NOT Those laws make it illegal to help others. Is that really what we want?

Anti gouging laws extend the misery and compound the inequity. But they do protect the government’s monopoly on helping, so they’re always popular with legislators. It’s like communism. The only way to make everyone equal is to make everyone poor.

Not everyone is as life savvy as yourself. LOL here we go with the communism talk, you should save it for the political forums not Raptor forums.

 

[GordoJay]

Not everyone is as life savvy as yourself. LOL here we go with the communism talk, you should save it for the political forums not Raptor forums.

It was an example. So skip that part. Not important. And it’s not a matter of being smart or not, it’s a matter of being ignorant or not. There are a lot of ignorant people out there who think that price controls will fix everything because they aren’t aware of the second and third order effects. If I can enlighten one person, the world will be a better place by a tiny bit. So let me try without getting on a high horse about it.

 

[zapp]

Just emailed Ford corporate to expose a few local dealerships that are blatantly abusing the market. They are currently building cases against many dealerships that will end up resulting in them losing their future allocations and dealer stock and having them reverted to more honest dealerships that breed long term customer relationships. They said this is across ALL models not just Bronco or f150 lightning. I would implore everyone that see these absurd mark ups to email them as well. I don’t think 2k 5k or even 7.5k for a 37pp is out of the question in today’s market it is after all a free market and it is a SUGGESTED retail price but 10k, 20k, sometimes even more is absolutely absurd and just plain greedy. This doesn’t bode well for customers that have been loyal for many years.

The emails to send these complaints are

[email protected]

[email protected]

Thank you. I'll make use of these contacts!
Ford needs to at least realize what's really going on out there.

edit:
I have actually 2 orders open and I'm on the waiting list for the Raptor R with 3 dealers.. but I also ordered a Rivian R1T and I have a feeling that this startup might be delivering before Ford and the dealers get their things together.. I deeply feel that I need to start bidding ADMs on my orders to get them scheduled.. Yes dealer promised MSRP and allocation, but as everyone, my trust with the dealers is below 0.
Ordering the Rivian was so easy. Website, config, order, 1k refundable deposit, done. Now I'm getting transparent updates on estimated delivery month (Nov 2022) and that's it..
No BS talk with sales, no feeling of unfair treatment or overpaying.. Ford still has a competitive product, even with the EVs around, but the overall customer experience is just mind-blowing bad. And that is directly related to Ford's stock price..

 

[funkified]

This affects me in no way shape or form as I swore off buying new vehicles. Simple thing is if you personally dont like it, dont pay it. Find a store that will sell at MSRP or whatever you're comfy with. As someone said earlier its your choice as the consumer. Its not like these Raptors are essnetial to our lives, it is a luxury item that is highly sought after. So there will be those that profit on it where they can, others will choose not to. Supply and demand is a bi*ch.

 

[RaptorWhoSaysNI]

It was an example. So skip that part. Not important. And it’s not a matter of being smart or not, it’s a matter of being ignorant or not. There are a lot of ignorant people out there who think that price controls will fix everything because they aren’t aware of the second and third order effects. If I can enlighten one person, the world will be a better place by a tiny bit. So let me try without getting on a high horse about it.

Not everybody has the resources or opportunities that we have and it's not as easy for them to figure things out the way we do. If it were pure anarchy and there were no guardrails we would all be f'd. Government, large corporations and the super wealthy would take advantage of us all. Having government, which I think gets in the way sometimes but also does good things is a requirement in our world but, who's worse the big corporations or big government, pick your poison. Is there a happy medium?