Livernois Motorsports Fuel Pump Upgrade

[6.2Canadian]

and what of the stalling when coming to a stop? to me it sure sounds like something is moving around in the tank, or the bucket is broken.

As for gauging something off of duty cycle, really? These don't have an electronic returnless system, they have a mechanical returnless. So, like the 2011+ mustangs, and all other Copperhead processor equipped vehicles (save the GT500), the FPDM is only a 2 speed controller. Low flow, and high flow. So no matter what fuel pump you run it's going to show the same duty cycle since duty cycle is measured by fuel flow, which is calculated from the engine. It looks at injector flow rate and PW to figure out flow, and then commands low speed, or high speed duty cycle based on this. You can change the switch point, but the duty cycle is always going to be two values.

We have no problem explaining our products, methodology, results, etc. But if you are going to bring data into the conversation, make certain it actually is relevant to the conversation. I would have expected more out of another vendor, at least that they have a knowledge on the inner workings of the fuel system and ECM logic of the vehicle they are discussing.

It's unfortunate that another shop that is supposed to know about these trucks are posting blatantly inaccurate information. This is required learning on Day 1 to be able to properly tune, and upgrade these trucks. I am not certain how you would be able to properly calibrate, or give advice without knowing this basic fact on the fuel system.

The worst part is by telling a forum member incorrect information, there are other people out there that will make the wrong choices because of this lack of knowledge. You've now taken a customer that bought a part from us, which works wonderfully, and made him think that we are the devil for selling it. All while the reality being that the shop that installed it didn't do their job correctly, and the shop that tuned it gave him bad information because they don't know how it works.

As vendors, we are supposed to work together to better the market, but spewing out incorrect information, and then insisting that it's correct will only hold back the community.

You say before you bring data... You just said after 500 hp a better fuel pump is needed ... Almost every truck on here that's supercharged is over that running the stock pump..

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

You say before you bring data... You just said after 500 hp a better fuel pump is needed ... Almost every truck on here that's supercharged is over that running the stock pump..

And that doesn't make it right. Do any of you have fuel pressure gauges to know, absolutely know that the pump is keeping up?

Also 500rwhp in july is different than 500rwhp in January. While the dyno corrects to give you a number, your engine needs extra fuel when the air is better. If your pump is losing pressure, forcing your injectors to pick up the slack, then when it gets cold out it will lose more pressure.

This is a classic argument of doing things the right way vs doing things the acceptable way. Just because something works, doesn't make it right.

 

[6.2Canadian]

And that doesn't make it right. Do any of you have fuel pressure gauges to know, absolutely know that the pump is keeping up?

Also 500rwhp in july is different than 500rwhp in January. While the dyno corrects to give you a number, your engine needs extra fuel when the air is better. If your pump is losing pressure, forcing your injectors to pick up the slack, then when it gets cold out it will lose more pressure.

This is a classic argument of doing things the right way vs doing things the acceptable way. Just because something works, doesn't make it right.

So I guess I should build my whole engine because the stock internals are working but they aren't the right way to go with a supercharger.. Anyway I don't wanna sit here and argue with you.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

So I guess I should build my whole engine because the stock internals are working but they aren't the right way to go with a supercharger.. Anyway I don't wanna sit here and argue with you.

Not at all, the engine is stronger than many give it credit for. If its tuned properly it can handle 600rwhp. But to say that your fuel system is fine because you're making over 500whp without an issue is in the range we deem the start exceeding the limits of the pump. This is where you start to see pressure drop. The 550 mark is the point of no return. The pump has so far exceeded its design limit the pressure falls off of a cliff.

This is why we monitor fuel pressure, and spend time validating things. It would be easy to just say forget it, the injectors are compensating for the loss in pressure, but that's not the proper way to do it. What happens when you put some miles on it and the injectors have some deposit build up? Now they won't be able to pick up the slack any more.

We get it, everyone wants the answers to make them feel safe. We all like to be warm and fuzzy. But we're here to share our knowledge and experience, not tell everyone that its OK to play it fast and loose.

 

[6.2Canadian]

Not at all, the engine is stronger than many give it credit for. If its tuned properly it can handle 600rwhp. But to say that your fuel system is fine because you're making over 500whp without an issue is in the range we deem the start exceeding the limits of the pump. This is where you start to see pressure drop. The 550 mark is the point of no return. The pump has so far exceeded its design limit the pressure falls off of a cliff.

This is why we monitor fuel pressure, and spend time validating things. It would be easy to just say forget it, the injectors are compensating for the loss in pressure, but that's not the proper way to do it. What happens when you put some miles on it and the injectors have some deposit build up? Now they won't be able to pick up the slack any more.

We get it, everyone wants the answers to make them feel safe. We all like to be warm and fuzzy. But we're here to share our knowledge and experience, not tell everyone that its OK to play it fast and loose.

ok ok ok you win but if it's soooo important why didn't you offer this before you started building your high hp in house engines. Or is this something that took 5 years to figure out ?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

ok ok ok you win but if it's soooo important why didn't you offer this before you started building your high hp in house engines. Or is this something that took 5 years to figure out ?

We have been selling this pump for those 5 years. This thread was a reminder post about it. Not a new product release.

This is why we are so certain about it's performance, reliability, and track record. We have trucks that we installed it in 5 years ago still pounding the sand and pavement out there making 600+ RWHP, and some above 700RWHP.

And our engine program was started at just a little before then. Remember, our stroker builds were out before Whipple or Roush even had a supercharger, and only a month after procharger released their kit. So we have been at it since the beginning of the 6.2

 

[6.2Canadian]

We have been selling this pump for those 5 years. This thread was a reminder post about it. Not a new product release.

This is why we are so certain about it's performance, reliability, and track record. We have trucks that we installed it in 5 years ago still pounding the sand and pavement out there making 600+ RWHP, and some above 700RWHP.

And our engine program was started at just a little before then. Remember, our stroker builds were out before Whipple or Roush even had a supercharger, and only a month after procharger released their kit. So we have been at it since the beginning of the 6.2[/QUOTE

Well then ... I am interested in it and now you've made me look completely stupid on here maybe a discount would be nice

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

We have been selling this pump for those 5 years. This thread was a reminder post about it. Not a new product release.

This is why we are so certain about it's performance, reliability, and track record. We have trucks that we installed it in 5 years ago still pounding the sand and pavement out there making 600+ RWHP, and some above 700RWHP.

And our engine program was started at just a little before then. Remember, our stroker builds were out before Whipple or Roush even had a supercharger, and only a month after procharger released their kit. So we have been at it since the beginning of the 6.2[/QUOTE

Well then ... I am interested in it and now you've made me look completely stupid on here maybe a discount would be nice

Well, that defintiely wasn't our intention. Questions like yours are necessary, because if you were right, then it would show that we as a vendor are not on our game, and if you are wrong it gives the answers others aren't bold enough to ask. So you shouldn't feel that way.

As for a discount, well, call us on what items you are looking for and we will always see what we can do. On a single item by itself, there just isn't any wiggle room on things, but if you are looking for multiple items, we do have package bundles that we offer.

 

[CoronaRaptor]

6.2 you got balls to be a little confrontational and that is good, it brings out the best in all party's, don't think anybody looks stupid on this thread. Damn good solid advice and information.

 

[Jimbo]

...don't think anybody looks stupid on this thread...

Until you chimed in....