Livernois Motorsports Fuel Pump Upgrade

[CoronaRaptor]

Thank god! Makes perfect sense. TY

 

[mjyst3]

Damn this is some good reading. How did I miss this thread????

 

[skyscraper]

Damn this is some good reading. How did I miss this thread????

Is it just me, or does a person lose a lot of credibility when they can't even put a sentence together?

 

[JimIII@JDM]

I would say we have tuned more Supercharged Raptors then most any company out there. We have over 1,000 Raptor tune files in our data base, all custom built in house for various customers across the world. I'd say 40-50% of those are Supercharged files. Very very rarely will we see an upgraded fuel pump in one of these trucks. The 2010 Flex Fuel trucks can support about 550 RWHP safely. More than that and the single pump system is at its capacity. 47# injectors which are the most common injector used when Supercharging your Raptor can support about 575-600 RWHP safely as well. It's the fuel pump that runs out of limit first.


Of all these trucks we have tuned, only about 3-4 had the Livernois upgraded fuel pump. We have never installed or even seen one in person. Metro NYC's truck had one pre installed before coming to our shop. We dynoed his truck here and he made just over 500 RWHP. We noticed the truck didn't fuel any differently than the stock pump, and by that I mean we had to make no adjustments in the tune. At that point we compared notes on what we usually see with the stock fuel pump and noticed that fuel pumps were around the same duty cycle. To us this meant the pump really is not capable of delivering any more than the stock pump. So we told Gabriel this and showed him what we meant and just like anyone else who buys a product that does no perform he was upset.

I can not say that the pump does or does not flow more or less than stock. I don't know what kind of pump it is or how it's supposed to be used to get the most out of it. We contacted livernois for any recommendations before tuning Metro's truck and they said it would be no different than tuning for the stock pump. They were right we didn't have to make any adjustments. However we saw no difference from the stock pump. I do not see how a single pump can provide any more fuel delivery than the stock pump. A dual pump system or custom return style system is the only real answer. A BAP is a bandaid, I've never been a fan and we won't use them in our shop.

I hope this helps to clear up were Metro is coming from, and besides the foul language I can tell you he is Italian (I believe) and it's sometimes hard to understand what he says. Luckily I come from an Italian family so its normal to me

JimIII@JDM

 

[SD_Plat]

^ from the horses mouth... there you go...

Sounds like this purported 'fuel pump upgrade' is mearly a strawman.

Does @LIVernois have any real world data to share which supports the upgrade?

edit: I don't see how a faulty install could be to blame if this thing is still supplying fuel? enlighten me...

 

[Jimbo]

I've run boost-a-pump setups on my Cobras, and they worked as advertised... Sounds like the OP had an installation issue and wasn't even near the HP required to need this setup, but got it anyway and someone put it in wrong.

 

[JimIII@JDM]

I've run boost-a-pump setups on my Cobras, and they worked as advertised... Sounds like the OP had an installation issue and wasn't even near the HP required to need this setup, but got it anyway and someone put it in wrong.

The BAP will provide more fuel, but the idea behind it is just to ramp up the voltage to the pump higher than it was designed to increase the out put further than it was ever designed to go as well. It's a band aid and only meant for a temporary fix until a real fuel upgrade can be provided.

They have been used for over 2 decades now we have seen them be used on many different applications and we still refuse to install, sell, or tune with them.

JimIII

 

[CoronaRaptor]

If he is indeed running out of fuel at 1/4 tank, then something is amiss with the installation. As far as the fuel pump goes, I see it as any other aftermarket part, such as an alternator or a waterpump, neither of which increase horsepower, but depending on the manufacturer of the part, they can either be more reliable or prettier, both of which I have purchased for many many years for my hot rods and vehicles.

 

[6.2Canadian]

The BAP will provide more fuel, but the idea behind it is just to ramp up the voltage to the pump higher than it was designed to increase the out put further than it was ever designed to go as well. It's a band aid and only meant for a temporary fix until a real fuel upgrade can be provided.

They have been used for over 2 decades now we have seen them be used on many different applications and we still refuse to install, sell, or tune with them.

JimIII

Soooo at the end of the day the conclusion is if it ain't broke don't fix it ....

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I would say we have tuned more Supercharged Raptors then most any company out there. We have over 1,000 Raptor tune files in our data base, all custom built in house for various customers across the world. I'd say 40-50% of those are Supercharged files. Very very rarely will we see an upgraded fuel pump in one of these trucks. The 2010 Flex Fuel trucks can support about 550 RWHP safely. More than that and the single pump system is at its capacity. 47# injectors which are the most common injector used when Supercharging your Raptor can support about 575-600 RWHP safely as well. It's the fuel pump that runs out of limit first.


Of all these trucks we have tuned, only about 3-4 had the Livernois upgraded fuel pump. We have never installed or even seen one in person. Metro NYC's truck had one pre installed before coming to our shop. We dynoed his truck here and he made just over 500 RWHP. We noticed the truck didn't fuel any differently than the stock pump, and by that I mean we had to make no adjustments in the tune. At that point we compared notes on what we usually see with the stock fuel pump and noticed that fuel pumps were around the same duty cycle. To us this meant the pump really is not capable of delivering any more than the stock pump. So we told Gabriel this and showed him what we meant and just like anyone else who buys a product that does no perform he was upset.

I can not say that the pump does or does not flow more or less than stock. I don't know what kind of pump it is or how it's supposed to be used to get the most out of it. We contacted livernois for any recommendations before tuning Metro's truck and they said it would be no different than tuning for the stock pump. They were right we didn't have to make any adjustments. However we saw no difference from the stock pump. I do not see how a single pump can provide any more fuel delivery than the stock pump. A dual pump system or custom return style system is the only real answer. A BAP is a bandaid, I've never been a fan and we won't use them in our shop.

I hope this helps to clear up were Metro is coming from, and besides the foul language I can tell you he is Italian (I believe) and it's sometimes hard to understand what he says. Luckily I come from an Italian family so its normal to me

JimIII@JDM

Jim,

I am confused on this. If you state the stock pump is good to 550, it wouldn't be out of fuel, so why would an upgraded pump show any different data below this point? If the stock one won't pressure drop, neither will an an aftermarket one of higher flow.

Also, I am even more confused on the comment about a single pump versus a twin pump. Are you saying that a higher output single pump isn't an upgrade? That's how it reads, and I certainly know that isn't possible. Volume is volume, no matter if it comes from one pump, or two. A single 500lph pump will support essentially the same as 2 255 pumps. So if you can do the job with one drop in, you should. Now, there is of course a limit that you would hit with our single pump, and then we run a BAP (we have been doing them for 14+ years, and in 14+ years have only had 3 failed units). It's all in how they are installed.

I would really like more insight into this logic. as it really does nothing for the confirmation or counter argument about our setup.

If you aren't out of full, the pump won't help. Just like bigger fuel injectors don't add horsepower or help if you don't need them, this is no different.