Lightning Raptor

[jondle]

Ford would surely wait to see how quickly the Lightning gets accepted by customers before making such a big change. I would guess that they go with a hybrid model first though, as that would you wouldn't have the same range issue.

There are quite a few issues I'd want to see fixed or improved before I make that sort of investment. Range isn't so much the issue, but the charging times. It's fine 95% of the time, but if I decide I want to drive to Florida for example, I don't want to have to have the trip take twice as long because of charging, and then have to make plans to charge while I'm there. I probably would end up just renting a vehicle to avoid the hassle.

The other big issue is depreciation. Your batteries will hold less charge the older they are, and thus you'll get worse performance and lower resale value (I would think, haven't looked at used values). They need to find a way to keep battery capacity high or economically be able to switch out batteries.

Engineering Explained has a few videos about charge times that clear this up quite a bit. You can easily keep your charge times to 20 to 40 minute stops as long as you are using a Tesla or Electrify America charging stations. The key is not to wait for the vehicle to get to 100% charge, but leave around 80%. The fuller your battery is, the slower it charges. In summary, it isn't near as bad as most people think, but probably longer than ICE.

How Miserable Is A Tesla Road Trip?

How Miserable Is A Winter Tesla Road Trip? -18°C & Broken Superchargers

Can An Electric Car Travel 1,000 Miles In A Day?

Really interesting, real world experiments. I think the winter one is most interesting as he has had the car for a while whereas the first one is his first road trip in the car so he hadn't figured out how to optimize stops.

 

[PorterW1111]

Ford would surely wait to see how quickly the Lightning gets accepted by customers before making such a big change. I would guess that they go with a hybrid model first though, as that would you wouldn't have the same range issue.

There are quite a few issues I'd want to see fixed or improved before I make that sort of investment. Range isn't so much the issue, but the charging times. It's fine 95% of the time, but if I decide I want to drive to Florida for example, I don't want to have to have the trip take twice as long because of charging, and then have to make plans to charge while I'm there. I probably would end up just renting a vehicle to avoid the hassle.

The other big issue is depreciation. Your batteries will hold less charge the older they are, and thus you'll get worse performance and lower resale value (I would think, haven't looked at used values). They need to find a way to keep battery capacity high or economically be able to switch out batteries.

my batt is 7 years old and charges to 96% capacity. i dont think the battery degradation is as bad as made out to be.

 

[melvimbe]

my batt is 7 years old and charges to 96% capacity. i dont think the battery degradation is as bad as made out to be.

A little surprised by that. My understanding was that it was a bit worse, but I honestly haven't researched much.

 

[PorterW1111]

A little surprised by that. My understanding was that it was a bit worse, but I honestly haven't researched much.

I’ve heard on the Tesla pages it’s 5% per 100k miles. Which seems about right with what I’m at.

 

[melvimbe]

Engineering Explained has a few videos about charge times that clear this up quite a bit. You can easily keep your charge times to 20 to 40 minute stops as long as you are using a Tesla or Electrify America charging stations. The key is not to wait for the vehicle to get to 100% charge, but leave around 80%. The fuller your battery is, the slower it charges. In summary, it isn't near as bad as most people think, but probably longer than ICE.

How Miserable Is A Tesla Road Trip?

How Miserable Is A Winter Tesla Road Trip? -18°C & Broken Superchargers

Can An Electric Car Travel 1,000 Miles In A Day?

Really interesting, real world experiments. I think the winter one is most interesting as he has had the car for a while whereas the first one is his first road trip in the car so he hadn't figured out how to optimize stops.

20-40 minutes would be rather annoying. And it's not just a matter of getting you 800 miles (or whatever) to your destination, but then finding a place to charge it over night so you have it to drive around at your vacation spot (or whatever) and then having close to a full charge when it's time to go back. I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that right now, given charging times and availability of charging stations, it's a hassle I wouldn't want on a road trip.

 

[PorterW1111]

A little surprised by that. My understanding was that it was a bit worse, but I honestly haven't researched much.

What I find humorous is that we talk about battery degradation over time but don’t compare it similarly to engine/transmission wear over time. Would it be safe to assume that a gas powered truck would also lose 10% of its range over the same mileage as the electric vehicle?

ie a truck at 200k miles isn’t going to have the same ability as it did at 50k miles

 

[melvimbe]

What I find humorous is that we talk about battery degradation over time but don’t compare it similarly to engine/transmission wear over time. Would it be safe to assume that a gas powered truck would also lose 10% of its range over the same mileage as the electric vehicle?

I could be wrong, but I thought MPG sometimes even improves slightly over time. I'm far from an expert at this.

 

[Pinned]

I’ve heard on the Tesla pages it’s 5% per 100k miles. Which seems about right with what I’m at.

Battery degradation is not linear. It'll hit a threshold and then rapidly decline. Tesla guarantees 70% of battery capacity retention up to 150k miles on a Model S - by 200k I would bet it's less than 50%.

For anyone wanting to keep their EVs long term, they'll have to plan for battery replacement as part of the cost of ownership.

 

[DFS]

Can't wait for this "Net Zero" initiative to force us all into E cars, then Warren Buffet and Bill Gates who own the power grids will choke power supply or make it unaffordable, and say public transport is your only option, and next thing you know some government agency or trillion dollar corporation controls all of your movement as well every other aspect of life. All in the name of "saving the earth"

 

[melvimbe]

Can't wait for this "Net Zero" initiative to force us all into E cars, then Warren Buffet and Bill Gates who own the power grids will choke power supply or make it unaffordable, and say public transport is your only option, and next thing you know some government agency or trillion dollar corporation controls all of your movement as well every other aspect of life. All in the name of "saving the earth"

The State of california has been trying to push advancements in cars beyond the natural normal market advancement for decades with limited success. Whatever deadline they've currently set will surely be set back again when it becomes bluntly obviously that the goal was not realistic. I don't think current deadlines will be any different.

Right now, only 5% of all vehicles sold are EV, or something like that. It's going to be a decade before even have the capacity to produce 50% of all new vehicles. And we have not really started addressing how the resources to produce batteries are acquired, or how they are disposed. I honestly would be too surprised if we start seeing an SJW revolt against planet killing EVs a few years from now, once they get bored with attacking fossil fuels and find neo-woke enlightenment.