How do bypass shocks in the rear give you more travel?

[MOT26]

Thanks zombiekiller.
You have posted valuable information numerous times on this site that is helping a lot of us make the right decisions with our Gen 2's.
It's cool that you spent so much time and money figuring this trucks limits and are now willing to help the rest of us get it right the first time.
There are a few folks on this forum who have builds similar to yours, but they are not willing to help/advise like you do.
You have probably saved us hundreds of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Please keep it up.

 

[zombiekiller]

Thanks zombiekiller.
You have posted valuable information numerous times on this site that is helping a lot of us make the right decisions with our Gen 2's.
It's cool that you spent so much time and money figuring this trucks limits and are now willing to help the rest of us get it right the first time.
There are a few folks on this forum who have builds similar to yours, but they are not willing to help/advise like you do.
You have probably saved us hundreds of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Please keep it up.

being patient always costs less. I'm not so patient. Thank you for the kind words. I'm happy to see that people out there do find value in my drivel.

Happy holidays to you and yours.

 

[CR Gittere]

John,
I think I am going to get mine installed in late january. I will give you an update once I give the truck a little run.

Live valve shocks electronically operate the valving in the shock based on certain parameters that are read from sensor inputs. The shocks valving can only open and close so much, so they only operate within a set compression and rebound range. Lets take compression as an example. In a normal adjustable shock you have clickers that you can adjust to make the shock stiffer or softer. You need to turn that knob to change the way a shock compresses.

Live valve shocks move these clickers for you in real time based on the sensor input. That way you have a shock that operates best over different terrain (street dirt etc).

Ford went a little further and allow you to select a terrain mode. This terrain mode effects how the shocks work and kind makes the auto adjustment range of the shock more specific and further refines it's operation.

The 3.0 live valves have an external adjustment for compression and rebound that allow you to move that range around. So imagine it a little like this

If you have 100 compression clickers on a shock with 1 being full soft and 100 being full hard you would dial it into maybe 90 for agressive smooth road driving and maybe down to 24 for rock crawling and slower offroad driving. Selecting the terrain mode puts the shock into a operating range say 45 clicks to 75 clicks. Then the shock essentially works with the sensors to open and close the valving based on sensor input.

The external adjuster allows you to essentially have 1 to 200 clicks of adjustment and then the live valve will operate within that set range.....

 

[zombiekiller]

John,
I think I am going to get mine installed in late january. I will give you an update once I give the truck a little run.

Live valve shocks electronically operate the valving in the shock based on certain parameters that are read from sensor inputs. The shocks valving can only open and close so much, so they only operate within a set compression and rebound range. Lets take compression as an example. In a normal adjustable shock you have clickers that you can adjust to make the shock stiffer or softer. You need to turn that knob to change the way a shock compresses.

Live valve shocks move these clickers for you in real time based on the sensor input. That way you have a shock that operates best over different terrain (street dirt etc).

Ford went a little further and allow you to select a terrain mode. This terrain mode effects how the shocks work and kind makes the auto adjustment range of the shock more specific and further refines it's operation.

The 3.0 live valves have an external adjustment for compression and rebound that allow you to move that range around. So imagine it a little like this

If you have 100 compression clickers on a shock with 1 being full soft and 100 being full hard you would dial it into maybe 90 for agressive smooth road driving and maybe down to 24 for rock crawling and slower offroad driving. Selecting the terrain mode puts the shock into a operating range say 45 clicks to 75 clicks. Then the shock essentially works with the sensors to open and close the valving based on sensor input.

The external adjuster allows you to essentially have 1 to 200 clicks of adjustment and then the live valve will operate within that set range.....

that's a really great explanation of the way the live valve system works.

I'm pretty sure that Fox added the single adjustment knob for firm and soft because they knew that ford would never allow for a BCM flash to account for the larger fluid volume in the upgraded shocks.

With the dial, You can shift that working range based on what you're feeling and essentially accommodate for the fluid volume and your driving style.

The only thing that I really wish Ford would have done is to use a stand-alone suspension computer, like in the gt350s and gt500s with magneride.

If they had done it that way, it would have opened up a TON of new suspension options, in particular for trucks running the 4.0s, and 4.5s and would have created an entirely new breed of suspension company and tuners. You could have been able to flash suspension tunes like engine tunes, including being able to Log the inputs for precise tuning.

but c'est la vie. it didn't go that way, but it's pretty cool that y'all have the option at all.

 

[CR Gittere]

that's a really great explanation of the way the live valve system works.

I'm pretty sure that Fox added the single adjustment knob for firm and soft because they knew that ford would never allow for a BCM flash to account for the larger fluid volume in the upgraded shocks.

With the dial, You can shift that working range based on what you're feeling and essentially accommodate for the fluid volume and your driving style.

The only thing that I really wish Ford would have done is to use a stand-alone suspension computer, like in the gt350s and gt500s with magneride.

If they had done it that way, it would have opened up a TON of new suspension options, in particular for trucks running the 4.0s, and 4.5s and would have created an entirely new breed of suspension company and tuners. You could have been able to flash suspension tunes like engine tunes, including being able to Log the inputs for precise tuning.

but c'est la vie. it didn't go that way, but it's pretty cool that y'all have the option at all.

Actually that already exists I THINK.... once I get my hands on the new 3.0 live valves, I HOPING I can take them apart and tune them just like a regular shock.....

I am hoping all I need to do is change the shim stack to my liking to move that clicker range around...

 

[zombiekiller]

Actually that already exists I THINK.... once I get my hands on the new 3.0 live valves, I HOPING I can take them apart and tune them just like a regular shock.....

I am hoping all I need to do is change the shim stack to my liking to move that clicker range around...

If it does exist, there isn't an easily accessible website to buy it. I heard King announced something at sema, but I can't find any details on it.


a couple of years ago I got super interested in suspensions that could adjust on the fly. ( when I was doing lots of track stuff and ran a gt350). I actually did the design for and patented a shock shaft speed sensor. The whole idea was to be able to take the gyro, engine, trans and abs inputs, along with the shock shaft speed sensor and write a suspension control application.

I just never did anything with it.

 

[CR Gittere]

If it does exist, there isn't an easily accessible website to buy it. I heard King announced something at sema, but I can't find any details on it.


a couple of years ago I got super interested in suspensions that could adjust on the fly. ( when I was doing lots of track stuff and ran a gt350). I actually did the design for and patented a shock shaft speed sensor. The whole idea was to be able to take the gyro, engine, trans and abs inputs, along with the shock shaft speed sensor and write a suspension control application.

I just never did anything with it.

I meant to say traditional tuning can still exist with live valve, you just need to crack the shock open and change the shim stack. The live valving will still still work on top of that, just in a different range of compression and rebound....

 

[zombiekiller]

I meant to say traditional tuning can still exist with live valve, you just need to crack the shock open and change the shim stack. The live valving will still still work on top of that, just in a different range of compression and rebound....

I'd tend to believe that the internals of the shock are mostly, if not exactly identical. After all, the live valve function on the shock end is limited to a motor that makes the adjustments to the clicker.

thanks for the insight.


All of the sensor input and logic happens in the bcm. From what I've found online, there are no sensors in the shocks. I just wish that a similar system could be retrofitted to multi-tube bypasses.

 

[CR Gittere]

Yes all the choices are made in the BCM, but I am hoping the internals are more traditional so I can still move the overall window of operation around....

 

[zombiekiller]

Yes all the choices are made in the BCM, but I am hoping the internals are more traditional so I can still move the overall window of operation around....

I'd be shocked if they weren't.