How do bypass shocks in the rear give you more travel?

[zombiekiller]

for my porpoises, The ORR setup is kind of useless.

I don't necessarily need or want live valve adjustments.

What I would LOVE is the ability to log all of the gyro/yaw/shock shaft speed metrics, then have the ability to tune the shocks from a laptop.

The problem is, no one makes a retrofit bypass adjustment control. I would need to be able to manipulate 5 tubes on each rear shock and 3 tubes on each front shock.

And I don't want to be forced to buy new shocks to the tune of $12-15K when what I have will work perfectly after KDM tunes them.

Hell, even without in-cab adjustment capability, being able to log what the truck is doing, then review and make adjustments would be really cool for me.

It is just a tad difficult to watch what the truck is doing through whoops while driving it. That and the best shock tuners have decades of experience with it and all have special sauce/voodoo that they SHOULDN't Share.

But yeah, Live valve = on the fly computer-controlled valving adjustments based on vehicle telemetry.

What ORR is doing isn't that different from what rancho did in the late 90s/early 2000s with the in-cab shock controllers. The difference here is that you can save shock "tunes" and flip through them without messing with a dial.

 

[CR Gittere]

buy a motec ecu and dash or go and get an AIM dash and some potentiometers and wheel speed sensors and you should be good to go. basic data logging will show you these in a graph. overlay it with gps tracks and boom Bob's your uncle and you are good to go

 

[zombiekiller]

buy a motec ecu and dash or go and get an AIM dash and some potentiometers and wheel speed sensors and you should be good to go. basic data logging will show you these in a graph. overlay it with gps tracks and boom Bob's your uncle and you are good to go

let's just say that when I eventually pop the motor, There is a heavy chance that most of the electronics will get yanked, The truck will get rewired and a very healthy LS/recased 6l80 goes in with a motec ECU/dash.

Until then, I don't really have an appetite to divert funds away from my cage or the steering upgrade that I'm thinking about.

 

[Fordraptorrrrrrrr]

let's just say that when I eventually pop the motor, There is a heavy chance that most of the electronics will get yanked, The truck will get rewired and a very healthy LS/recased 6l80 goes in with a motec ECU/dash.

Until then, I don't really have an appetite to divert funds away from my cage or the steering upgrade that I'm thinking about.

I'm dying to know what steering upgrade you are going to do with the electronic steering. I'm genuinely interested as I havent heard much in the way of upgrades for this.

 

[zombiekiller]

I'm dying to know what steering upgrade you are going to do with the electronic steering. I'm genuinely interested as I haven't heard much in the way of upgrades for this.

No one makes a beefier EPAS unit.

I am debating going to swingset steering. I have to kinda just " let the truck eat" with 40s. aka drive with very soft hands. When it gets hot because of the 40s, it gets notchy. swingset steering would also get rid of any bump steer. It's kind of hard to explain the difference in feeling. you just kinda have to drive a truck, or get a ride in one to compare.


I've already destroyed one EPAS unit ( they run about $1600), and that was on 37s, which reminds me, I need to pick up a spare.

 

[Fordraptorrrrrrrr]

No one makes a beefier EPAS unit.

I am debating going to swingset steering. I have to kinda just " let the truck eat" with 40s. aka drive with very soft hands. When it gets hot because of the 40s, it gets notchy. swingset steering would also get rid of any bump steer. It's kind of hard to explain the difference in feeling. you just kinda have to drive a truck, or get a ride in one to compare.


I've already destroyed one EPAS unit ( they run about $1600), and that was on 37s, which reminds me, I need to pick up a spare.

And if you do swing set steering say bye bye to the different steering modes lol, sucks but it is what it is.

 

[zombiekiller]

And if you do swing set steering say bye-bye to the different steering modes lol, sucks but it is what it is.

the steering modes don't really give me cause for concern. I just don't want to upset the braking mode intelligence, because it actually does make a pretty big difference in stopping.

If I have the opportunity to figure out what resistors that I'd have to put in to get rid of the factory EPAS unit, I'd do it. It would be pretty neat to develop a performance EPAS swingset setup. with a user-adjustable ratio and assist percentile.

 

[bren5279]

Wow what a great thread, lots of fantastic info in here!

Just to add to whats been said (for anyone who didn't already know):


-There are actually 2 different types of electronic controlled suspension for the Fox shocks, both use solenoids to control flow through the adjuster ports (basically replacing the manual adjusters):



1. Non-sensor controlled (ex the new iQS) - Solenoid position values for all shocks controlled by User switch. Settings are pre-set and only change when user changes the switch setting.

Ex: Soft=0.10 Med=0.50 Firm=0.90


https://www.ridefox.com/product.php?m=utv&t=shocks&partnumber=803-01-450-KIT


2. Sensor controlled (Live Valve) - Solenoid position values for each individual shock is constantly calculated (roughly ever 1/10th of a sec) through an ECU/BCM based off of multiple sensors on the vehicle (such as steering angle, brake pressure, vehicle speed, etc) and typically an additional influencing factor from the user set driving mode (such as baja or rock).

Ex: FrontLeftShock=(SteerAngl*BrakePres*VehSpeed*DriveMode) [note not the actual formula]

In order for us to tune the Fox Live Valve to our liking , it should just be a matter of tweaking those calculations.

My knowledge kind of stops at Forscan, and where the actual calculation values are actually being done (whether actually in the Ford ECU, or if it is a separate stand-alone module).

I wonder if anyone on here has enough knowledge to locate the calculation formulas or the user-set-mode values. Or an Aftermarket Tuner interface that could modify/provide an interface capable of modifying them????????

That would allow people to tweak the Fox Live valve with no physical modifications.


Now if you wanted additional control, such as cockpit-control of anything more than just compression (since as mentioned by others, sounds like they only currently control compression) I think all it would really take is something like retrofitting the solenoids to take the place of the other adjuster screws…. (so Live valve controling damping, and IQS controlling rebound)

 

[ORRSRCH]

Hello all... @John Rathjen and I were chatting recently about our upcoming system and mentioned that you had a great thread going...

What kind of questions do you have? What features would you want to see? What's valuable to you?

Feel free to post here or email directly at [email protected] and we'll do our best to get back to you. We'll go over the existing comments and try to provide some additional insight over the weekend for everybody.

 

[zombiekiller]

Hello all... @John Rathjen and I were chatting recently about our upcoming system and mentioned that you had a great thread going...

What kind of questions do you have? What features would you want to see? What's valuable to you?

Feel free to post here or email directly at [email protected] and we'll do our best to get back to you. We'll go over the existing comments and try to provide some additional insight over the weekend for everybody.

I'd like to see a retrofit " live valve" system for 5 tube bypass shocks (3 tube as well).

If the evolution started with a piggyback system that simply offered in-cab tube adjustments via an iPad or something, I'd be the first in line to put it in and help with testing/r&d if the eventual goal was live-valve functionality. It would be even better if you could save a suspension "profile" and flip between a few stored profiles based on terrain.

I honestly am generally hesitant to mess with the tubes without a consummate suspension pro telling me what to twist on. I generally don't travel with one of those guys in my tool kit, so changing settings as terrain changes when down in Baja is not something I really even consider. Something like this would change that.

It would also be rad to facilitate logging so data could be sent to a suspension tuner for evaluation and adjustment of the "profiles".