Getting King 3.0's on the front and back. Anything I should know before hand?

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

letsgetthisdone

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Posts
468
Reaction score
444
Location
Las Vegas, NV
For 3.0's, especially the fronts, I wouldn't do kings. They basically only have two zones due to being a needle shock (for the gen2), and are a top mount reservoir (fluid going into the reservoir comes from above of the piston).

I put Fox 3.0's on my gen1 and they ride better than the factory 3.0's on my friend's gen2 (and obviously they completey destroy the factory gen1 2.5's). I also got the DSC clicker because not only does it provide external adjust ability but also increases the available damping because the shock is now using the shaft displacement for damping as well.
 

Bowewelding

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Posts
204
Reaction score
46
Problem with the foxs is theres very little to no rebound dampening because of the giant free bleed holes on the bottom of the rebound zone. The kings are only 2 zones but its a transitioning zone because of the tapered needle..the 3.0 kings I replaced my factory "3.0 s" with ride a whole lot better and I got a true 3.0 sized piston rather than a 2.5 in a 3.0 body with the fox. Also 2 compression stacks of shims and 2 rebound stacks of shims making them almost infinitely adjustable. The wholes drilled in the fox inner body doesn't leave much adjustment, even though they are shimmed.
 

letsgetthisdone

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Posts
468
Reaction score
444
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Problem with the foxs is theres very little to no rebound dampening because of the giant free bleed holes on the bottom of the rebound zone. The kings are only 2 zones but its a transitioning zone because of the tapered needle..the 3.0 kings I replaced my factory "3.0 s" with ride a whole lot better and I got a true 3.0 sized piston rather than a 2.5 in a 3.0 body with the fox. Also 2 compression stacks of shims and 2 rebound stacks of shims making them almost infinitely adjustable. The wholes drilled in the fox inner body doesn't leave much adjustment, even though they are shimmed.

Those bleed holes in the bottom are not bypass holes, they are what make the reservoir bottom mount (fluid that the shaft displaces goes into the reservoir from the rebound side of the piston, greatly increasing compression damping effectiveness). They are only bypass holes if the fluid recirculates back to above the piston, which it does not do. Additionally, any offroad truck you want the rebound to fire pretty hard from ride height anyways. Like, the last truck we tuned the suspension almost bounces off the limit straps if the truck comes off the ground fast enough.

You're hung up on "true 3.0" when in reality, due to the design of the Foxes, they are within about 5-10% of the total damping ability of the king due to using the shaft for damping (by making the reservoir bottom mount and controlling flow into/out of the reservoir with a shim stack and the DSC valve) where king does not do that. And then due to the design of the foxes there are more bypass stages. All of which are just as tunable (if not more tunable) as a king if you know what you're doing. A 2.5" shock is much more capable than a lot of people think, having the additional bypass stages is more important than going from a 2.5 to a 3.0 and only having two zones in the 3.0. The twin tube IBP's are definitely better tech than needle shocks from both a tuning and ride quality stand point. I'm sure the kings ride better than the factory foxes, but the factory foxes are setup for a wide range use, where as the kings are much more focused in how they perform.

And on the subject of tuning, 99.9999% of dudes on this site aren't going to take apart the shocks and tune them. Both the kings and the foxes are set up very well from factory, and the clickers on the fox allow a fair range of adjustment for high and low speed damping to suit different guys' driving. The king also has an adjuster. So talking about tuning beyond turning clickers is mostly a moot point.

Hell, I took all of my foxes apart before install to replace the garbage Fox fluid with what we use in the race trucks, and I was thinking I may make valving changes. Well the piston in the rear 3.0's was already pretty much stacked, and I liked what I saw on the piston in the fronts so i left that as well except for making some very small adjustments to account for the different fluid being slightly thinner (changed a few things around on the fulcrum and the largest shim by a about .005").
 

Bowewelding

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Posts
204
Reaction score
46
Very well put but from what I saw on the factory foxs they looked very much so like free bleed holes for rebound valving. And from how they rode i didn't feel the rebound valving doin much work.. i have noticed most of the desert trucks having very little rebound valving so they get the tire back to the ground but that's not how these trucks are driven..The dividing piston is in the bottom leg of the shock and it had some sort of a one way washer and spring keeping the rebound pressure separate from the nitrogen pressure of the Rezervoir if that makes any sense. The dual compression adjuster is kind of nice. Agree with you on most people won't be adjusting there shocks. I can't speak for the aftermarket fox because I've never opened them up but isn't the 2 hoses coming from the top of the shock the cactus cooler theory on the fox? Its kind of funny to me because both designs are kind of cracks off of old curnutt shock designs. He had his shock shop out here in 29 palms.
 

letsgetthisdone

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Posts
468
Reaction score
444
Location
Las Vegas, NV
The OEM gen2 shock works the same as the “aftermarket” one.

The shims stack and the one way valve going into the reservoir is the same as/similar to the DSC valve, it’s just not adjustable. It controls the flow on the compression side, where it needs to in order to add damping via the shaft displacement. And then on the rebound side it allows fluid back into the shock as fast needed to replace the volume of the shaft leaving the body.

I’m not sure where you think the gen2 stock shocks have “no” rebound damping. They work quite well for an OEM “all around” setup, and certainly don’t lack rebound damper. And then they work even better with preload collars or lift springs (Eibach or geiser) in the front. Fast rebound applies to any vehicle you’re gong to drive at any kind of speed off road. You want the tire to be able to follow the terrain. Obviously there’s a limit to that, especially the upper half of travel, and especially the last 2-3” at the top of the shock in the bump zone you want the it to “stick” to prevent the truck from bucking. But I don’t share your sentiment that then gen2 shocks have no rebound control. Maybe yours needed rebuild and going to the Kings fixed it. I know my buddies truck got pretty sloop in just 10k mile with mixed street/off-road driving. But new fluid fixed it right up.

The two hose setups are directional flow. One is flowing out of the shock, and one is flowing into the shock. It ensures “different” fluid flows through the reservoir, which keeps the fluid cooler. VS the single hose design just pushing the same bit of fluid in and out.
 

Bowewelding

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Posts
204
Reaction score
46
I got into my stock shocks at about 2500 miles and lightened the compression stack by single stacking the shims instead of double stacked as they were..also flutter stacked the compression bypass shim stacks to try and lighten it up.. all while throwing an extra shim into the rebound low speed stack which didn't do anything because of those big holes in the bottom of the shock body.. the rebound valving was horrible from factory in my opinion, which is what shock valving is all about "opinion " there's no right or wrong way. Its all about driving and terrain style. Ive heard more people complain about the rebound valving than I haven't. Once I figured how fox does there ibp thats why I went with kings to get back into valve shims instead of drilled holes..theres not much u can do with the holes if u want to make them smaller all u can do is thread in jets or similar. I ran eibach springs on the factory shocks which made the shock fire out even faster than factory so it made the rebound even worse.. also have no sway bar on it. And that huge tunk sound when topping out the shocks, i hated that!!! We always knew of the holes drilled in the body to be a mountain bike bypass shock back in the day from curnutt..
 

Bowewelding

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Posts
204
Reaction score
46
Loose rebound valve is nice to keep the front end popped up but it still was a little to loose for my liking .. it would fire off of the ground coming into a driveway way if u went to fast.. the compression was way to stiff and the rebound was way to loose .. with the shock off of the truck I couldn't push the shock down for the life of me it was so stiff.. i just got a set of 3.5s for the rear by 16s and I can push those down
 

Halo Raptor

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2019
Posts
409
Reaction score
191
Location
Monrovia, CA
I have King 3.0's all the way around and have never heard anything from them. This big tadoo about clicking is nonsense. If your riding in the bed with your head hanging over the side maybe youll hear them. Never heard mine once inside the cab. Mine are quiet and the street ride is amazing. Off road, well thats where the Kings show their stuff. They are unreal. You wont regret it at all
 

Peterb

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Posts
380
Reaction score
237
Location
vancouver
your kings are quiet that’s great
kings are known for clacking, mine clack over speed bumps and off road
some people complain, I like mechanical sounds
 

letsgetthisdone

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Posts
468
Reaction score
444
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Loose rebound valve is nice to keep the front end popped up but it still was a little to loose for my liking .. it would fire off of the ground coming into a driveway way if u went to fast.. the compression was way to stiff and the rebound was way to loose .. with the shock off of the truck I couldn't push the shock down for the life of me it was so stiff.. i just got a set of 3.5s for the rear by 16s and I can push those down
Valving is certainly preference to an extent, but any nitrogen charge shock is extremely difficult to compress by hand..
 
Top