GEN3 Buyback case has been opened.

[John M BUNMAN]

This thread is full of retardation.

It is NOT the manufacturers responsibility to make aftermarket parts work with their systems. 100% the opposite I am afraid.

Uhhh Ohhhhh
You said the TARDO word…
According to FRF bylaws, rules and regulations.. that should be followed up with “No Offense of Course”
Thus releasing you from any liability resulting from Triggering said Tardos.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Should you need further assistance, please contact the BunMan Law Group. We can also handle your Camp Lay-June Bad Water Case

 

[FordTechOne]

Yes, I’m more than serious. Is this not a thing anymore?

MM Act

MM governs warranties across various consumer products. It has nothing to do with aftermarket modifications. The manufacturer is required to honor the warranty on the product they sell. Not the product the consumer hacked up and now wants fixed for free.

 

[MattR]

MM governs warranties across various consumer products. It has nothing to do with aftermarket modifications. The manufacturer is required to honor the warranty on the product they sell. Not the product the consumer hacked up and now wants fixed for free

15 U.S.C. 2302 (C) is specific to aftermarket/non manufacturer products and maintenance.

“Hacking” up your vehicle and it directly causing the issue is not covered. Modifying a part and it failing, but the modification not being a direct cause should be covered under MM. Either way, the burden of proof is on the dealer/rep rather than consumer.

I think we are just seeing a different mindset between consumer and manufacturer/rep. Looking for any reason to deny warranty and immediately blaming the consumer is why we have consumer protection laws thankfully.

This reminds me. I think I saw you mention something about idle RPM. I agree that 700+ causes most of my shaking to go away. Do you have any info regarding this? It’s driving me nuts, I wish there was a way to increase idle speed a hair to get it smooth.

 

[DFS]

15 U.S.C. 2302 (C) is specific to aftermarket/non manufacturer products and maintenance.

“Hacking” up your vehicle and it directly causing the issue is not covered. Modifying a part and it failing, but the modification not being a direct cause should be covered under MM. Either way, the burden of proof is on the dealer/rep rather than consumer.

I think we are just seeing a different mindset between consumer and manufacturer/rep. Looking for any reason to deny warranty and immediately blaming the consumer is why we have consumer protection laws thankfully.

This reminds me. I think I saw you mention something about idle RPM. I agree that 700+ causes most of my shaking to go away. Do you have any info regarding this? It’s driving me nuts, I wish there was a way to increase idle speed a hair to get it smooth.

I think the truth ultimately lies somewhere in the middle, you have to look at it from the engineers perspective that design and test these vehicles in a very specific state. Any number of small changes create a series of compounding problems that become part of a larger problem that gets more and more difficult to trace root cause. A few electrical changes for lights, then some Forscan mods, and ACC relocation, all seem like minor issues. But can compound into something larger that may manifest in a way that is difficult to trace, and equally difficult to prove. That's where I feel the burden needs to be shouldered by the person who modifies the vehicle, Caveat Emptor. Ford has to certainly do their due diligence since they are far from perfect (high enough volume no one can be perfect), but they can't allocate the time or resources to prove every single modified vehicle's root cause of failure or problem. That's one major contributing factor to price increases passed onto the buyers.

 

[FordTechOne]

15 U.S.C. 2302 (C) is specific to aftermarket/non manufacturer products and maintenance.

“Hacking” up your vehicle and it directly causing the issue is not covered. Modifying a part and it failing, but the modification not being a direct cause should be covered under MM. Either way, the burden of proof is on the dealer/rep rather than consumer.

I think we are just seeing a different mindset between consumer and manufacturer/rep. Looking for any reason to deny warranty and immediately blaming the consumer is why we have consumer protection laws thankfully.

MM does not apply to vehicle modifications. The term “aftermarket” in MM refers to replacement equivalent parts manufactured by someone other than the OEM. So replacement oil filters, air filters, wiper blades, etc. An example would be a consumer coming in with an engine noise concern; the dealer/manufacturer cannot deem it non-warrantable just because the oil filter is a Purolator and not an OEM. However, if they disassemble the filter and find that the media came apart, then the failure would be non-warrantable.

Aftermarket modifications are a completely different category. You’re not using an equivalent part; you’re changing the configuration of the vehicle with unknown variables. When there is a failure of a factory component or system related/attributed to the modification, it’s non-warrantable. That doesn’t mean your warranty is void, just that the specific repair is not covered.

It is not the manufacturer’s responsibility to prove that your aftermarket modification caused the failure, only that the wear or failure is attributable to the modification. You can’t expect any manufacturer to spend millions of dollars re-testing a product every time someone makes the claim that their modifications aren’t responsible for a related failure; that’s simply ridiculous. The burden of proof is on the person who modified the vehicle outside of the factory design and engineering specifications.

 

[ToadSmasher2K1]

What do you mean my warranty has been voided?? Haha

Installing my bumper as we speak, hope I don’t have @Luchh224 problems!

 

[Luchh224]

Installing my bumper as we speak, hope I don’t have @Luchh224 problems!

man my shit looked just like that when I was doin the bumper lol. Lemme know how it goes, I’m sure people will still assume it’s all me and there couldn’t possibly be anything wrong with they truck.

 

[fordfreek]

When I worked at a dealership years back one of the first questions when starting to diagnose a customer complaint was "Is there any aftermarket equipment installed on the vehicle? ". You'd be surprised how many times this was the case. Even when I thought there could be no possible way at the beginning of diagnosis that they could be connected. Not saying this is your case, but it does happen.
Give the dealership a solid chance to repair it. The electrical issues you're intermittently dealing with could be something as simple as a loose ground wire. Just need time to find it.

 

[MattR]

I think the truth ultimately lies somewhere in the middle, you have to look at it from the engineers perspective that design and test these vehicles in a very specific state. Any number of small changes create a series of compounding problems that become part of a larger problem that gets more and more difficult to trace root cause. A few electric changes for lights, then some Forscan mods, and ACC relocation, all seem like minor issues. But can compound into something larger that may manifest in a way that is difficult to trace, and equally difficult to prove. That's where I feel the burden needs to be shouldered by the person who modifies the vehicle, Caveat Emptor. Ford has to certainly do their due diligence since they are far from perfect (high enough volume no one can be perfect), but they can't allocate the time or resources to prove every single modified vehicle's root cause of failure or problem. That's one major contributing factor to price increases passed onto the buyers.

This is every industry.

MM does not apply to vehicle modifications. The term “aftermarket” in MM refers to replacement equivalent parts manufactured by someone other than the OEM. So replacement oil filters, air filters, wiper blades, etc. An example would be a consumer coming in with an engine noise concern; the dealer/manufacturer cannot deem it non-warrantable just because the oil filter is a Purolator and not an OEM. However, if they disassemble the filter and find that the media came apart, then the failure would be non-warrantable.

Aftermarket modifications are a completely different category. You’re not using an equivalent part; you’re changing the configuration of the vehicle with unknown variables. When there is a failure of a factory component or system related/attributed to the modification, it’s non-warrantable. That doesn’t mean your warranty is void, just that the specific repair is not covered.

It is not the manufacturer’s responsibility to prove that your aftermarket modification caused the failure, only that the wear or failure is attributable to the modification. You can’t expect any manufacturer to spend millions of dollars re-testing a product every time someone makes the claim that their modifications aren’t responsible for a related failure; that’s simply ridiculous. The burden of proof is on the person who modified the vehicle outside of the factory design and engineering specifications.

I haven’t seen any cases where a court has required the consumer to prove that their work has not led to the problem, and “modification” is specifically used in multiple statements. Are we now saying that anything other than an oil filter or light bulb is a “modification” and now not covered by MM and manufacturer warranty? My sunroof has tint on it, so I’m sure that somehow caused the glass to heat up therefore throwing the mechanism off track. Or, I turned off the double honk in Forscan so that’s why my side view mirror intermittently loses power.

I agree that people cause detrimental harm to their vehicles and then attempt a warranty claim. It’s in the manufacturer’s interest to deny every warranty claim and blame it on the consumer and that is why we have protection laws. Luckily, MM does in fact cover modifications outside oil changes and windshield wiper blades. The mindset of denying everything possible is why there are entire law firms devoted to advocating for the consumer in auto claims.

 

[fordfreek]

You are not wrong nor are you correct.

Let me tell you a little story.

Years ago (2009 I think) I had a new diesel come in (worked at dealer at the time) with check engine light on.

It had a bunch of codes, none that were MAF specific but air flow and egr flow codes.

It had an aftermarket air box/air intake. Something I had seen 100's of times.

I ran through all the diag steps and found nothing wrong specifically. I cleared codes and drove with. With in 5 miles it set all the codes again.

On a hunch I took his airbox set up out and installed a factory one from another truck. Problem solved.

The guy was f u c king furious, said I was full of shit. That a his previous trucks had the same airbox, said that all his friends had that air box and they had no issues.

He insisted!!!! That we/Ford HAD to make the airbox work, that is WAS our responsibility. That the airbox manufacturer was at 0 fault. And had 0 responsibility in the matter.

The guy fought this for over 3 weeks. He got a replacement airbox from the manufacturer and it did the same thing.

I do not know why, but that truck would not/did not like an aftermarket air box.

But understand that isn't the manufacturer's problem.

I had this exact thing happen to me. Personally installed many of the aftermarket intake/ filter set up on duramax diesels, but I had one that would flag it no matter what I did other than put it back to stock. MAF did not like it