Gen 1 Raptor vs. Tundra TRD Pro

[SVTTrooper]

I don’t think the Toyota reliability questioning is warranted

yes it is, because they cut corners like everyone else. just because people choose not accept this fact and in turn bang the "reliability" drum is mind boggling. I've owned 3 Toyota's.. an 88 SR5, 99 4Runner and 08 Tacoma. All 3 had their problems and to say, "ahhh they're crazy reliable" is just flat out untrue.

Everyone will bash the big 3 if their vehicles aren't reliable, yet to question a Toyota is sacrilege.

every owner in some form is biased, but there is no "other side" though. frames aren't as strong, worst safety rating, those are indisputable facts. anyone with 10 free minutes can look up a camburg mid travel set up for a Tundra, 35s, rear leafs and shocks and see the cost "savings" disappears instantly. on top of that there's body work and no torsen diff, so when he asks which is a better bang for his buck, which do you think it is?

And send him to a yota forum? LOL! they're the absolute worst when it comes to fan boy shit.

 

[coachhomer]

yes it is, because they cut corners like everyone else. just because people choose not accept this fact and in turn bang the "reliability" drum is mind boggling. I've owned 3 Toyota's.. an 88 SR5, 99 4Runner and 08 Tacoma. All 3 had their problems and to say, "ahhh they're crazy reliable" is just flat out untrue.

Everyone will bash the big 3 if their vehicles aren't reliable, yet to question a Toyota is sacrilege.

every owner in some form is biased, but there is no "other side" though. frames aren't as strong, worst safety rating, those are indisputable facts. anyone with 10 free minutes can look up a camburg mid travel set up for a Tundra, 35s, rear leafs and shocks and see the cost "savings" disappears instantly. on top of that there's body work and no torsen diff, so when he asks which is a better bang for his buck, which do you think it is?

And send him to a yota forum? LOL! they're the absolute worst when it comes to fan boy shit.

Wow. Don’t know where to start except to say that you seem angry over a civilized discussion. I don’t recall calling them “crazy reliable”. I do remember saying they have ranked highest in customer satisfaction. Look that up. No one bashed Ford here. Why are you so defensive? As with anything there are outliers. Of course Toyota has problems. But do they have less on average? I would bet so. But that is for the originator of the discussion to decide. The reliability drum that I am banging is based on ownership of 5 Toyota’s over the course of 30 years with no big issues. Seems I can bang that drum from my experience. Also had a 7.3L diesel F-250 that was super reliable. So can I say Fords are reliable since I don’t have problems with my Raptor? And by the way reliability has nothing to do with safety. And that was the only point I was making.


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[SVTTrooper]

Toyota ranks higher in overall satisfaction, when you look up Tundra the numbers are varied and also not comparable to a F150. why? sales numbers, Ford sells nearly 5 times the amount as Toyota. so when you say you'd bet they'd have less problems on average, it's again a skewed comparison.

I quoted "crazy reliable" as nearly every Toyota fan instantly goes to that response, which again isn't true. how many owners claim they've had no problems yet lie through their teeth? lol. everyone does it. I've had my Runner in the family for 20 years, it's not without fault. and I'm not saying just because I've had problems all Toyotas are junk.. far from it.

 

[FordTechOne]

Wow. Don’t know where to start except to say that you seem angry over a civilized discussion. I don’t recall calling them “crazy reliable”. I do remember saying they have ranked highest in customer satisfaction. Look that up. No one bashed Ford here. Why are you so defensive? As with anything there are outliers. Of course Toyota has problems. But do they have less on average? I would bet so. But that is for the originator of the discussion to decide. The reliability drum that I am banging is based on ownership of 5 Toyota’s over the course of 30 years with no big issues. Seems I can bang that drum from my experience. Also had a 7.3L diesel F-250 that was super reliable. So can I say Fords are reliable since I don’t have problems with my Raptor? And by the way reliability has nothing to do with safety. And that was the only point I was making.


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Apparently you didn't read my previous post. The Tundra is an abomination. Feel free to revisit.

SVTTrooper is not "angry" at all. He is simply stating the truth, which is that Toyota owners in general are ignorant and blind to reality. That is the only way they can manage to sell a worst in class, unreliable, poorly engineered, unsafe vehicle on the open market in North America. Toyota loyalists buy into Toyota's propaganda that they are somehow "reliable" because of the badge on the grille. Apparently it helps them sleep at night. When the opposite proves to be true, these same Toyota loyalists become super defensive (you?) and claim that everyone is crazy except for themselves. Toyota is notorious for covering up their issues and getting away with paying off owners to keep quiet about defects. How do you think the 2011 Toyota unintended acceleration investigation came to be? They followed their Japanese culture to a tee...deny, deny, deny...pay off people...deny more...pretend that their was no knowledge of the defect...lie under oath...lose the lawsuit and pay the highest fine ($1 Billion) ever issued for an automotive defect in the Supreme court. Not simply due to the nature of the defect, but because they COVERED IT UP like they do with everything. Yet you TRUST this company and put your own name out to stand behind them?

Toyota sells products in North America for one reason...pure profit. That is why their North American plants are all based in the south with non-union labor earning minimum wage. They are here to make Tokyo rich...foolish and desperate Americans are simply the complacent enablers. BTW, before anyone makes any anti-Union comments, all of Toyota's Japanese plants are Union. Let that sink in for a minute.

You can "bet" all you want, but Toyota does not have less "problems on average" than any F-Series, Silverado, or RAM. As far as "customer satisfaction", what is your (legitimate) source? As I previously mentioned, the problems that the Tundras roll in with cost thousands of dollars - on average. The statistics from the most common sources are not broken down by the nature or cost of the problem...meaning that a phone pairing issue on an F-150 is weighed as heavily as a complete engine failure in a Tundra. Considering that Toyota hasn't even had bluetooth infotainment until the past couple model years (yet still worst in class) those numbers are extremely subjective. Add in that Ford sells 8 times more F-series per year than Toyota sells Tundras, and the data is even more speculative.

 

[coachhomer]

Apparently you didn't read my previous post. The Tundra is an abomination. Feel free to revisit.

SVTTrooper is not "angry" at all. He is simply stating the truth, which is that Toyota owners in general are ignorant and blind to reality. That is the only way they can manage to sell a worst in class, unreliable, poorly engineered, unsafe vehicle on the open market in North America. Toyota loyalists buy into Toyota's propaganda that they are somehow "reliable" because of the badge on the grille. Apparently it helps them sleep at night. When the opposite proves to be true, these same Toyota loyalists become super defensive (you?) and claim that everyone is crazy except for themselves. Toyota is notorious for covering up their issues and getting away with paying off owners to keep quiet about defects. How do you think the 2011 Toyota unintended acceleration investigation came to be? They followed their Japanese culture to a tee...deny, deny, deny...pay off people...deny more...pretend that their was no knowledge of the defect...lie under oath...lose the lawsuit and pay the highest fine ($1 Billion) ever issued for an automotive defect in the Supreme court. Not simply due to the nature of the defect, but because they COVERED IT UP like they do with everything. Yet you TRUST this company and put your own name out to stand behind them?

Toyota sells products in North America for one reason...pure profit. That is why their North American plants are all based in the south with non-union labor earning minimum wage. They are here to make Tokyo rich...foolish and desperate Americans are simply the complacent enablers. BTW, before anyone makes any anti-Union comments, all of Toyota's Japanese plants are Union. Let that sink in for a minute.

You can "bet" all you want, but Toyota does not have less "problems on average" than any F-Series, Silverado, or RAM. As far as "customer satisfaction", what is your (legitimate) source? As I previously mentioned, the problems that the Tundras roll in with cost thousands of dollars - on average. The statistics from the most common sources are not broken down by the nature or cost of the problem...meaning that a phone pairing issue on an F-150 is weighed as heavily as a complete engine failure in a Tundra. Considering that Toyota hasn't even had bluetooth infotainment until the past couple model years (yet still worst in class) those numbers are extremely subjective. Add in that Ford sells 8 times more F-series per year than Toyota sells Tundras, and the data is even more speculative.

1. All companies sell products in North America for 1 reason. Profit.
2. Ford stock $8.49/share
3. Toyota stock $69.45/share (And yes I would “bet” on Toyota being more reliable than Ford and have and will continue to do so)

Toyota owners are ignorant blind to reality? Seriously? That’s your angle as to why Toyota is successful?

Interesting how Toyota has been able to be successful on pure propaganda according to you. Or is it possible that they actually do make cars people trust and like?

Maybe Ford needs to rethink the way they sell cars and trucks. Or should I say the way they make them. It’s a pretty ignorant to think that the reason Toyota is in better financial shape than Ford is because of pure propaganda.

To the originator of the post, I love my Raptor. I loved my Superduty. And I have owned Chevys and Volvo’s, and Infiniti’s, and Toyota’s. I am not a brand loyalist. I am probably a lot like you. A person who likes to make decisions based on research and past experiences not emotions. The Tundra is a great truck. And so is the Raptor. I don’t think you can go wrong either way.


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[CanadianRaptorVL]

lol... parts are easily available, OEM has to stock parts for a min of 10 years if stock is what you only want. plus you have ADD, SVC, RPG, Camburg, Dirt King, ICON that all manufacturer parts as well.

don't worry about parts... hell I'm currently looking at updating my Gen 1 front and back to a Gen 2, ADV and McNeil both make fiberglass body work so us gen 1 owners can give the truck a fresh look. so you see, the list is endless for who to get parts from.

Ok that sounds great. I was afraid body panels would be a pain to replace and find. For some reason, deer seem to like the front of my truck. 3 collisions last year (luckily grill guard saved my truck). If I do get a Raptor it's also getting a grill guard like all of my previous trucks...not sure how that will change the look but I'll have to find one that can wrap around the wider front end

 

[CanadianRaptorVL]

This might have already been said but if you are going to post this question on a raptor forum then know you will get raptor biased responses. Maybe you already have, but I would post the question on a Tundra forum as well just to get “the other side of the story”. I don’t think the Toyota reliability questioning is warranted. They have been consistently the highest rated in consumer satisfaction and for good reason. Not knocking the raptor at all. Just give credit where credit is due. I have 140k on my raptor with no issues. Also have 100k on a sequoia with no issues and have had Toyota’s in the past with 300k and no issues other than maintenance. It’s a good question you ask and I applaud your due diligence.

C


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Thanks for the honesty. Unlike most people, I don't have a preference for any brand in particular. All my previous vehicles have treated me well and I don't think you can put a label on an entire company because even each model / year may be different. As for the forums, I've read up on the Tundra a lot on other forums but never had any reason to post as there were plenty of discussions. I guess the Raptor is a little less common so I couldn't find too much information (especially the older generation)

 

[CanadianRaptorVL]

Toyota ranks higher in overall satisfaction, when you look up Tundra the numbers are varied and also not comparable to a F150. why? sales numbers, Ford sells nearly 5 times the amount as Toyota. so when you say you'd bet they'd have less problems on average, it's again a skewed comparison.

I quoted "crazy reliable" as nearly every Toyota fan instantly goes to that response, which again isn't true. how many owners claim they've had no problems yet lie through their teeth? lol. everyone does it. I've had my Runner in the family for 20 years, it's not without fault. and I'm not saying just because I've had problems all Toyotas are junk.. far from it.

Apparently you didn't read my previous post. The Tundra is an abomination. Feel free to revisit.

SVTTrooper is not "angry" at all. He is simply stating the truth, which is that Toyota owners in general are ignorant and blind to reality. That is the only way they can manage to sell a worst in class, unreliable, poorly engineered, unsafe vehicle on the open market in North America. Toyota loyalists buy into Toyota's propaganda that they are somehow "reliable" because of the badge on the grille.

1. All companies sell products in North America for 1 reason. Profit.
2. Ford stock $8.49/share
3. Toyota stock $69.45/share (And yes I would “bet” on Toyota being more reliable than Ford and have and will continue to do so)

Toyota owners are ignorant blind to reality? Seriously? That’s your angle as to why Toyota is successful?

Interesting how Toyota has been able to be successful on pure propaganda according to you. Or is it possible that they actually do make cars people trust and like?

Maybe Ford needs to rethink the way they sell cars and trucks. Or should I say the way they make them. It’s a pretty ignorant to think that the reason Toyota is in better financial shape than Ford is because of pure propaganda.

To the originator of the post, I love my Raptor. I loved my Superduty. And I have owned Chevys and Volvo’s, and Infiniti’s, and Toyota’s. I am not a brand loyalist. I am probably a lot like you. A person who likes to make decisions based on research and past experiences not emotions. The Tundra is a great truck. And so is the Raptor. I don’t think you can go wrong either way.


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Appreciate the responses regarding the reliability issue. I guess the only experience one can trust is their own so most are subjective. A lot of my friends have had great luck with Toyota, Ford, and Chevy but no one can really know if it's indeed just "luck". In the end, as long as I can expect +200,000 kms I should be happy with it. I don't even mind fixing vehicles because everything will eventually break which is why I wanted to go after "older" model trucks so that any issues I encounter will be easily "repairable" by myself or a buddy. All the new trucks are impossible (at least for me) to deal with and I probably won't even know how half the vehicle functions.

As long as everything checks out and I can find one with lower mileage I may be leaning Raptor at the moment. The 6.2L is an engine I've worked with before so it's left a good impression. I do carry people in the vehicle often so the safety issue does lend some bonus points for the Raptor given that I do seem to collide with an unusual amount of deer haha

 

[GCATX]

Your options:

Buy Toyota = Expect buyer's remorse every time you see a Raptor. You don't marry your first girlfriend, just because she "seems" reliable.

Buy Raptor = You won't even notice a toyota anymore. They blend in with everything else. You've married the one that turned your head and knows how to get shit done.

 

[FordTechOne]

1. All companies sell products in North America for 1 reason. Profit.
2. Ford stock $8.49/share
3. Toyota stock $69.45/share (And yes I would “bet” on Toyota being more reliable than Ford and have and will continue to do so)

So now share price dictates quality and reliability? By your reasoning, Tesla’s $300+ per share stock price means their quality and reliability is over 4 times that of Toyota. That is a baseless and ridiculous comparison, there is no correlation.

Your “bet” is not based on anecdotal evidence, not fact. In other words, it means nothing. Plenty of Tundra buyers “bet” that their vehicles would be reliable, only to be faced with cam tower leaks, AIP failures, and rusted frames - costing them tens of thousands of dollars in repairs. In many cases the frame replacements ($15,000 - $20,000) were more than the vehicle was worth. Toyota refused to issue a recall for the frame rust, so a a class action lawsuit was filed and Toyota lost, as they should have, costing the company $3.4 Billion.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-settlement-idUSKBN1370PE

Toyota owners are ignorant blind to reality? Seriously? That’s your angle as to why Toyota is successful?Interesting how Toyota has been able to be successful on pure propaganda according to you. Or is it possible that they actually do make cars people trust and like?

What is your definition of success? Making huge profits selling worst in class antiquated products based on a farce? Paying off owners to keep quiet about defects and signing non-disclosure agreements? Avoiding product defects until they become class action lawsuits? Putting American and Canadian workers out of high paying jobs?

Toyota posts record profits because Japan manipulates their currency. The exchange rate can result in an additional profit of $3000 on a $30k car. In addition, all of their North American plants employ low wage non-union workers. That amounts to thousands of dollars in extra profit per vehicle compared with American companies, which puts them at an unfair and unethical advantage.

You can learn about it here:

https://www.epi.org/publication/trans-pacific-partnership-currency-manipulation-trade-and-jobs/

Maybe Ford needs to rethink the way they sell cars and trucks. Or should I say the way they make them. It’s a pretty ignorant to think that the reason Toyota is in better financial shape than Ford is because of pure propaganda.

It’s pretty ignorant to make assumptions without knowing the facts. See explanation above.

To the originator of the post, I love my Raptor. I loved my Superduty. And I have owned Chevys and Volvo’s, and Infiniti’s, and Toyota’s. I am not a brand loyalist. I am probably a lot like you. A person who likes to make decisions based on research and past experiences not emotions. The Tundra is a great truck. And so is the Raptor. I don’t think you can go wrong either way.

I highly doubt the originator of the thread was not looking for speculation or “bets”. Which is all you have provided. The Tundra is not a “great truck” for the reasons posted earlier in the thread. The crash and durability test results speak for themselves; the Tundra is poorly engineered and unsafe compared to it’s competition. A “great truck” does not cause severe injuries to it’s occupants in a standard offset crash nor have a structure so weak that the bed touches the body in a basic durability test.

People argue all day about who makes the best truck; GM, Ford, or Ram. They are all safe, well engineered competitive products. The Tundra and Titan - both of which received horrible crash test ratings and reviews - are not class competitive in any way; they simply exist to steal a small chunk of market share from those misinformed or ignorant enough to buy them. Recommending either product to a potential buyer is doing them a huge disservice.