Geiser 2.5 in springs -shock Compression sag travel loss

[PCDan]

I see a lot of guys here have installed Geiser springs that raise the front end 2.5 inches. This surely must negatively impact the extension stroke and compression sag of the shock for functional off-roading.

I’m sure it’s fine for street trucks, which many on here are, but I assume 2.5” is too much sag loss for serious off-roading. At some point you need a longer stroke shock so that the shock has proper sag and is working in its optimal designed range of compression and extension damping.

Has anyone here measured the full stroke of the shock shaft travel into the body from compression to extension? I’d be interested in where the shaft is resting in the stroke with the Geiser.

 

[Loufish]

It's actually a little more then that...The ratio between full stroke and extension at ride height differs between application and individual ride taste and design. I set up my trucks at about 60-70 of full stroke, so that say a 10" travel suspension has about 7" of compression travel from normal ride height...too much compression travel (or lack of extension) and the wheels won't follow the terrain as well...THEN add in the fact that our shocks are internal by-pass which were tuned at a certain ride height..so changing the ride height too much puts the shock piston out of place for how the by-pass tuning was designed...

I believe our trucks wheel travel is about 50%...which of course the design compromise designed in from the factory..for me I'd like a little more compression travel which I now have with a small 1.5" level kit up front and running 3+ Deavers in back...

Now the Geisers...I would ask Nimrod here on this forum, he had them installed by pretty smart guys and he runs with smart fast guys (like Cameron Steele) down in Mexico and other places. I thought very much like you on the 2.5" ride height change, but from Nimrods reviews he seems pretty happy with the results...

I'd like to hear from others on this thread for sure...

 

[PCDan]

It's actually a little more then that...The ratio between full stroke and extension at ride height differs between application and individual ride taste and design. I set up my trucks at about 60-70 of full stroke, so that say a 10" travel suspension has about 7" of compression travel from normal ride height...too much compression travel (or lack of extension) and the wheels won't follow the terrain as well...THEN add in the fact that our shocks are internal by-pass which were tuned at a certain ride height..so changing the ride height too much puts the shock piston out of place for how the by-pass tuning was designed...

I believe our trucks wheel travel is about 50%...which of course the design compromise designed in from the factory..for me I'd like a little more compression travel which I now have with a small 1.5" level kit up front and running 3+ Deavers in back...

Now the Geisers...I would ask Nimrod here on this forum, he had them installed by pretty smart guys and he runs with smart fast guys (like Cameron Steele) down in Mexico and other places. I thought very much like you on the 2.5" ride height change, but from Nimrods reviews he seems pretty happy with the results...

I'd like to hear from others on this thread for sure...

Agree with nearly everything you said .. which was essentailly my point, and also why I asked if anyone had actually measured the full stroke.

Like you I think 1.5” is fine, which is what I did on my 13 and I will do on my 18. But 2.5 -3” just seems like it’s probably too much for the stock shock travel, which I doubt is more than 10”.

 

[MeFryRice]

I’m interested in this as well.

I have to ask, why does everyone go with the Geiser springs over the Eibachs, a well reprutable company?

What is the spring rates for the Geisers? Has anyone gone as far as having the Fox shocks revalved/tuned to accommodate the updated spring rates; I assume they are higher rate springs.

 

[Loufish]

I have to ask, why does everyone go with the Geiser springs over the Eibachs, a well reprutable company?

Yes Eibach makes good springs, however it's more to do with the design of the Geiser being a progressive wound spring..

 

[Loufish]

But 2.5 -3” just seems like it’s probably too much for the stock shock travel, which I doubt is more than 10”.

I'd be surprised if our front shocks had more then 8" of travel...I think the front suspension motion ratio is between 1.6 - 1.7 to 1 (Guys who know the actual number please jump in as I'm just estimating in my head)

 

[PCDan]

I'd be surprised if our front shocks had more then 8" of travel...I think the front suspension motion ratio is between 1.6 - 1.7 to 1 (Guys who know the actual number please jump in as I'm just estimating in my head)

Exactly, and why taking all the extension stroke out of maybe 8” of travel can’t be good. In my opinion of course.

I’ll be putting the truck on the lift and pulling the shocks off my 18 as soon as it comes in. I’ll measure the fronts and backs then.

I’m also going to look for springs that lift the front only 1.5”. As I would prefer springs over pre-load collars. I have Deaver front springs on my 68 Bronco, I’ll probably look into those as well.

 

[Slow6]

Exactly, and why taking all the extension stroke out of maybe 8” of travel can’t be good. In my opinion of course.

I’ll be putting the truck on the lift and pulling the shocks off my 18 as soon as it comes in. I’ll measure the fronts and backs then.

I’m also going to look for springs that lift the front only 1.5”. As I would prefer springs over pre-load collars. I have Deaver front springs on my 68 Bronco, I’ll probably look into those as well.

How long do we have to wait for you to get your truck? Not being a smart ass, mine is in garage at home and I work very remote, 39 days until I could get to it and measure anything. Eventually I'll replace the rear springs so if the 2.5 initial lift from Eibach or Geaser springs is still the same after 1000 miles (some say it will settle .5 inch), and there is indeed enough shock stroke to accommodate the taller spring without damaging the shock or degrading the ride quality. I would rather go that route then a perch kit in the long run. What ever I get for rear springs is going to lift the rear at least one inch, maybe more if I empty the bed.

I did not ask about compression or extension from factory ride height specifically but I did call SDHQ about rear springs and discussed spring perch options for short term solution. I was asking about Icon adjustable, that would solve the stance problem now and I could adjust it later after I replace rear springs to make sure I would like the stance with a 2.5inch raise in the front. The guy I spoke with did confirm that the Eibach was set up to run on the factory shock, but would not compare it to a Geiser...

I'd also like to know if anyone has any seat time with both springs, the Eibach and the Geiser to see if there is a noticeable difference. Seems a lot of people run with the Geiser because they had a spring for the Gen 1. Eibach is half the cost and that doesn't always mean anything/everything in my experience.

Yes Eibach makes good springs, however it's more to do with the design of the Geiser being a progressive wound spring..

In a couple other posts many other members have stated that the Eibach is a progressive spring as well, unfortunately I can't seem to get onto the Eibach website from my current location to verify.

 

[Slow6]

I'd be surprised if our front shocks had more then 8" of travel...I think the front suspension motion ratio is between 1.6 - 1.7 to 1 (Guys who know the actual number please jump in as I'm just estimating in my head)

Eibach is Linear according to website and rep on the phone. Phone rep quoted 548 pounds per 1 inch spring compression. Online release letter shows 583 pounds. Rumor is they updated the spring but did not update the release letter showing the change.
OEM is also linear according to Eibach and 533 pounds per 1 inch compression.

 

[TXRaptor]

Eventually I'll replace the rear springs so if the 2.5 initial lift from Eibach or Geaser springs is still the same after 1000 miles (some say it will settle .5 inch), and there is indeed enough shock stroke to accommodate the taller spring without damaging the shock or degrading the ride quality.

On the settling comment, I have had my Geisers for several months and I have driven close to 3000 miles with no additional settling. There was some initial settling right after they were installed, but I just measured them yesterday and they are still at the same height from the day I brought the truck home.