Engine rattle/noise at start up

[Turbo_lander]

Just check and 5 year 60K will cover this. I will probably bring it in next month have a camping trip planned so want to do that before the truck is gone for weeks

 

[WC114]

Kinda surprised Ford engineers can't figure this out

 

[WC114]

What's interesting is none of the Gt ford owners have reported this, at least not on the internet. Not like those cars are babied

 

[OPT PRIME]

What's interesting is none of the Gt ford owners have reported this, at least not on the internet. Not like those cars are babied

That engine is configured with a dry sump and considerably higher volume supply and scavenging pumps.

I still feel it’s an oiling issue. The system and component volume is large and the stock pump cannot deliver enough volume to the various loads which leads to oil starvation to the phasers. The phasers then bang, rattle and the tolerances open up. Over time the tolerances are such that the phasers cannot properly clock the cam under normal operation and eventually you’ll get detonation (too high dynamic compression at WOT) and a CEL.

I’m curious if this is causing premature cam and main bearing wear.


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[WC114]

That makes sense. But it still seems odd , that it only affects a few trucks.

 

[SL75]

That engine is configured with a dry sump and considerably higher volume supply and scavenging pumps.

I still feel it’s an oiling issue. The system and component volume is large and the stock pump cannot deliver enough volume to the various loads which leads to oil starvation to the phasers. The phasers then bang, rattle and the tolerances open up. Over time the tolerances are such that the phasers cannot properly clock the cam under normal operation and eventually you’ll get detonation (too high dynamic compression at WOT) and a CEL.

I’m curious if this is causing premature cam and main bearing wear.


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Exactly right.

 

[TwizzleStix]

…..I still feel it’s an oiling issue....

I believe the problem root is in the phasers themselves. Likely the odd application of the external flat-spiral spring (clock-spring) rather than a much more durable internal coil spring. I have some experience with Variable Valve Timing (VVT) actuators that Ford decided to call phasers. I assume their design and component names (s) have something to do with patent (non)infringement.

There are several design VVT actuators in use and they all (except Ford, that I'm aware of...) have a very strong internal coil spring to hold the actuator in the "neutral" or "at-rest" position until commanded to move by the related solenoid-controlled oil pressure. Depending on the OEM design, the at-rest cam position varies.

Some of the early Mazda version had a manufacturing problem where the spring-seat bore of the actuator was not hardened enough to take the pounding load of the spring force. The aluminum housing would fracture and the outer section that actually shifts the cam timing would be loose and would rattle like hell when the engine was started and continue to rattle until/unless the camshaft was command to either extreme. Mazda replaced the bad lot of actuators under warranty, but there was an aftermarket solution that upgraded the materials, spring, and locating pin to make the assembly bullet proof.

My first theory was oil pressure as mentioned earlier, but after viewing the Ford design externally, my new "theory" is that the Ford design has an inherent problem where the clock-spring force becomes inadequate to hold the actuator in the at-rest position and thusly it rattles on startup until the oil pressure is sufficient to hold it in the commanded position. There could be several reasons for the loss of tension. Material properties of the spring in respect to heat, vibration, duty cycles, etc. If the tension becomes zero, like a broken spring, then the actuator can allow random cam timing and result in operational problems while driving.

 

[OPT PRIME]

I think Twizzle nailed it. Perhaps all the best patents are spoken for and Ford didn’t want to pay royalties to XYZ?


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[Turbo_lander]

So if it is said Phasers and bad coil design is has Ford designed a replacement or replacing with same weak design? I don't want to take mine in for them to not eliminate the issue? Has anyone had the phasers, chains, tensioner, etc replaced and experienced the problem return?

 

[OPT PRIME]

My rattle returned along with a new one as well.


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