DIY stereo upgrade for under $500.00

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smurfslayer

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Yes, many folks have done the Pioneers/are happy with them, and any decent upgrade speaker will make a difference. I chose JBLs, which cost a bit more than the Pioneers, but are 2ohm speakers, and very efficient (louder with stock amp). I chose a 3way for the front kickpanel and then their high-end tweeters, and, if I had it to do over again, I might have gone back with components, for which the system was designed. JBL and Infinity make some good, efficient 6x9 components that would work well with the stock amp/setup. In the B&O, I think it's very debatable whether you want to switch out the rear 6.5s, because the B&O amp has a very forward bias, making the rears, even if fully faded, used for little more than fill. Finally, there is debate about the center channel speaker, whether it should be replaced, left alone, or removed. In the 2017s with the Sony system, it was an 8ohm speaker, which creates issues if you replace it with a 4ohm, which most aftermarkets are. In the B&O, it's a 4ohm, so the issues are more with imaging. Because my JBLs are a good bit louder than the stockers, I left my center channel alone. Many high-end installers recommend pulling it/unplugging it.

Have fun, and good luck!

So, if the center channel isn’t really helping or if you mod and don’t like the sound, don’t the signal processors have apps to tailor the output?
 

dhmcfadin

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So, if the center channel isn’t really helping or if you mod and don’t like the sound, don’t the signal processors have apps to tailor the output?

Very few DSP’s have true center channel processing. A true center is for creating an image that is equal for both passengers. Meaning, whether you are sitting in the drivers or passenger seat, you will experience the same stage and imaging.

In the case of the B&O and Sony systems, the “center” is just a blend of left and right. It’s not a true center. The reason ford even puts a “center” there is to make up for the poor off-axis positioning of the tweeter and low power output of the Sony and b&o amps. The “center” in our trucks gives the illusion of a fuller sound stage but it’s an ambience effect. There is not center processing. It’s an illusion.

When you move to an aftermarket dsp, amp, and speakers, you can eliminate the reasoning behind ford’s fake “center” all together. At this stage, the only center you should be considering is a true center. And this level of tuning and implementation is a whole new ball game. It’s not just adding a center and extra channel. There’s an immense amount of tuning and processing involved and frankly, it’s not necessary unless you are dead set on creating two equal images. The average passenger listener won’t notice the difference and SQ competition winning cars aren’t judged from the passenger seat anyways. A true center really is t necessary.

Now if you are still thinking you need a center for a “full stage effect”, consider this. Adding a center that is a blend of left and right will create a diffuse area of vague left/right cues, a 'wall' of sound. This is not the way to create a stereo image, you need distinct psycho-acoustic cues to create the stereo image, and this wall of sound is going to muddy things up so much, you won't get the panoramic stage, you'll get boombox sound, or mixed mono.

As a result, you're getting 3 separate, distinct sound sources to key in on, and cancellation from lobing, especially in the midrange, will break up your mind's ability to create a stage.

Some people like this, they like sound coming from everywhere in the vehicle, sort of a distributed madness approach.

And that's fine, but anyone who is familiar with sound quality guidelines, will listen to your system and be subjectively less wowed by your install choices.

I have seen quite a few people, including myself, attempt this "design" and I now know, it's usually a sign that someone has yet to be exposed to a true sound quality oriented system, that they have no point of reference and just want to get really loud, because that's impressive to them.

As you advance in the hobby, you put away those early steps and gain confidence in your speaker choices, you learn why you want a distinct sound field and controlled, accurate reproduction of your stereo sources.

If you listen mostly to techno/trance and there is literally more going on than a stereo soundstage in the recording, then the ambient gush of sound coming from everywhere is an effect that can be okay. I would even say that on an SQ oriented system, the focus can be too congested, if what you're shooting for is a dance hall, night club presentation.

That could even be extended to certain hair metal compositions, and the wall of sound that leaves you with a non-distinct stereo image being "built-in" to the recording, can be appreciated with this approach, but that too, is such a small percentage of material, it's almost always better to approach your system design with a distinct stage in mind.
 

smurfslayer

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Very few DSP’s have true center channel processing. A true center is for creating an image that is equal for both passengers. Meaning, whether you are sitting in the drivers or passenger seat, you will experience the same stage and imaging.

In the case of the B&O and Sony systems, the “center” is just a blend of left and right. It’s not a true center. The reason ford even puts a “center” there is to make up for the poor off-axis positioning of the tweeter and low power output of the Sony and b&o amps. The “center” in our trucks gives the illusion of a fuller sound stage but it’s an ambience effect. There is not center processing. It’s an illusion.

When you move to an aftermarket dsp, amp, and speakers, you can eliminate the reasoning behind ford’s fake “center” all together. At this stage, the only center you should be considering is a true center. And this level of tuning and implementation is a whole new ball game. It’s not just adding a center and extra channel. There’s an immense amount of tuning and processing involved and frankly, it’s not necessary unless you are dead set on creating two equal images. The average passenger listener won’t notice the difference and SQ competition winning cars aren’t judged from the passenger seat anyways. A true center really is t necessary.

Now if you are still thinking you need a center for a “full stage effect”, consider this. Adding a center that is a blend of left and right will create a diffuse area of vague left/right cues, a 'wall' of sound. This is not the way to create a stereo image, you need distinct psycho-acoustic cues to create the stereo image, and this wall of sound is going to muddy things up so much, you won't get the panoramic stage, you'll get boombox sound, or mixed mono.

As a result, you're getting 3 separate, distinct sound sources to key in on, and cancellation from lobing, especially in the midrange, will break up your mind's ability to create a stage.

Some people like this, they like sound coming from everywhere in the vehicle, sort of a distributed madness approach.

And that's fine, but anyone who is familiar with sound quality guidelines, will listen to your system and be subjectively less wowed by your install choices.

I have seen quite a few people, including myself, attempt this "design" and I now know, it's usually a sign that someone has yet to be exposed to a true sound quality oriented system, that they have no point of reference and just want to get really loud, because that's impressive to them.

As you advance in the hobby, you put away those early steps and gain confidence in your speaker choices, you learn why you want a distinct sound field and controlled, accurate reproduction of your stereo sources.

If you listen mostly to techno/trance and there is literally more going on than a stereo soundstage in the recording, then the ambient gush of sound coming from everywhere is an effect that can be okay. I would even say that on an SQ oriented system, the focus can be too congested, if what you're shooting for is a dance hall, night club presentation.

That could even be extended to certain hair metal compositions, and the wall of sound that leaves you with a non-distinct stereo image being "built-in" to the recording, can be appreciated with this approach, but that too, is such a small percentage of material, it's almost always better to approach your system design with a distinct stage in mind.


I think this is one of the better explanations of the “pros and cons” of the center channel, such as implemented in our trucks
I think it also helps explain a lot of the perceived muddiness.

Although, it’s still not clear to me if you can simply suppress that “channel” via the signal processor app or if you just need to disconnect it.

good info.
 

dhmcfadin

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When you replace the factory b&o or Sony dsp/amp, the center channel is eliminated. Meaning, even if you had a speaker connected to it, it won’t produce any sound.

If you don’t have a factory amplified system, you simply need to disconnect the center. There isn’t suppression of any kind.
 

FordPerf Addict

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Little Change of pace, random question.

But does putting a processor or aftermarket amp require or force the sound cancelling microphones to turn off?

After talking with my guy today who’s done a great job for me on past vehicles, he said the sound cancelling mics will turn off and will be unable to be used.

I honesty love how quiet the vehicle is and how smooth it sounds when I’m driving. I’m not sure if it’s worth an upgrade if I’m going to lose the Noice cancelling quiet ride if the vehicle


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Quaesta

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Great question! Damn I hate how complicated car stereo stuff is these days...
 

lawdog

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I think this is one of the better explanations of the “pros and cons” of the center channel, such as implemented in our trucks
I think it also helps explain a lot of the perceived muddiness.

Although, it’s still not clear to me if you can simply suppress that “channel” via the signal processor app or if you just need to disconnect it.

good info.

DHMcFadin did a very good job explaining the false "center channel" in 95% of audio systems (there are a handful that can actually decode 5.1/surround signals and/or upmix stereo to a multichannel surround effect).

This was my issue with the early versions of this thread...the center channel speaker in the Sony was an 8ohm single driver composite mid-woofer. The composite probably allowed it to play some higher frequencies, but there was no tweeter. Folks who replaced the center in the 2017 Sony usually did so with a 4ohm 2-way with a tweeter. This had the effect exacerbating the imaging issues DHM is discussing, because you're adding a tweeter AND a lower impedance speaker, making the center much louder and brighter than intended. That is REALLY going to artificially center the soundstage, but not in the way stereo imaging intends. With apologies to Phil Spector, this "wall of sound" is generally not desirable. However, if folks make this mod, and like it, more power to them.I just want people to understand what they are doing.

The same issue occurs in the 2018 B&O, but not as acutely, because there is just a 4ohm paper cone driver in the center channel, and I don't think the B&O tuning used it as much. Still, if you replace that paper center channel with an efficient 2way with a tweeter, you're going to get a very different output/soundstage than intended. Again, if you like the way it sounds, that's great.

Because I knew the JBL Stadiums/GTOs I went back with would play a good bit louder than the stock units, I decided to leave the center alone...I thought it would be even more overwhelmed by the JBLs/made even weaker ambient fill, with the nav/phone functionality preserved. I think that part works as I intended...I have tested the system at 1/2-2/3 volume by placing a large book over the center channel during playback, and it is not noticeable at all covered or uncovered. As DHM said, just about any installer/person going to the trouble to upgrade to a another digital processor/amp is going to disconnect the center and dial in the stereo image with the front speakers.

As I have said before, if I had it to do over, I wouldn't have used the JBL 3-ways in the front kickpanels, because, while they are much louder and clearer than the stock mid-bass drivers, their tweeters can disrupt the imaging pretty significantly based on driver's leg position, passenger position, etc. I would use a component, as the system was designed, because it's too difficult to get the image right with the low/kickpanel tweeter placement, IMO.

Now, I wasn't expecting a competition-level system or an audiophile experience to rival my home system for the $500 I spent. I got pretty much what I wanted...louder, clearer, better bass response. Some of the imaging issues are mitigated by the fact that I listen to the DSP surround setting most of the time, and it's good enough for me, for now.
 
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smurfslayer

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yeah, I’m leaning towards disabling the center channel if/when I undertake modifications beyond what I have because I think that even at low volume or power it’s just going to make things less precise, and just create more trouble imaging.
 

0r30

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yeah; @Guy and I both - probably more, used rolls of dynamat on the doors I think I had 6 rolls total, maybe 7(?) each door was a basically a roll, plus the sub box and some spare material to finish each door. I am not pro.

if you add the dynamat, don’t expect to stay under $500. I think $650 is more reasonable for upgrading a ’17 as Guy did, and adding dynamat.

’18 needs a pretty spendy sound processor. To be fair, the ’17 would benefit from clear signal too, but you can do the ’17 / Sony system in stages without the sound processor up front.

How many square feet?


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