CRP stage 4 build (lower than expected power levels)

[Gsteve]

All the reading I’ve done on here and I’ve figure that .... get a great tune for the best fuel you can get , a 170 stat and maybe the cooler plugs and leave it. Everything else is low on return for the money

 

[zfgracing]

Zombie said it best...

the mechanical limits are reached. That’s the point of sharing this. The dyno plots from five star and CRP are generous.

folks can decide if it’s worth it for themselves. You’ll pick up about 60 horsepower, mostly all upper RPM range and not much difference with torque. So unless you’re WOT all the time.... you aren’t really noticing much... and that’s my experience.... boost launch it from a dead stop and mash the gas and it’ll get close to a 4 second 60 and I can get it to spin in AWD. But normal driving around town... overtaking ons. Highway... etc... it’s not a palpable change.

so to see more power you’re talking about extensive engine work, head work... maybe even reshaping the combustion area of the heads... 20-30 grand minimum.

I think I’ll just buy a new supercharged coyote next year. ‍[emoji3603]

I wouldn't say that the mechanical limits are you're more or less limited by Fuel. Five stars Dyno graphs are definitely generous but what you also have to consider is that e85 is going to be significantly more horsepower than 93 octane 100-150 hp more on the crp stage 4 turbos.

But we are fixing to find out what's what on your truck real soon

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[zfgracing]

I’ve done all the same mods an same results, an my turbos came from Ryan. Not worth the money

I think you need a retune

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[zfgracing]

so CRP performs like Crap. lol

No that's definitely not the case the issue here is the tune and the fuel. These trucks are never going to make super great numbers on pump gas because you can only have so much cylinder pressure with 93 octane. But on the flip side on E85 these turbos are extremely capable and proven. I have crew cab non raptor/ non ho trucks trapping low 121-122 in the 1/4 mile on stage 3 and 123-124 on stage 4 with e85. That's low to mid 600 whp. They perform very well for stock frame Turbo, when supported by proper tuning and supporting mods.

Looking at the data from the previous tune on this exact truck I can 100% say that you guys are jumping the gun on making the conclusion that these turbos are no good.

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[dillard09]

Well ZFG I'm anxious to see what you can do. You going to leave the auto octane adjust or just run a straight octane tune?

 

[Guy]

Please know that I wasn’t looking to point fingers or disparage any products... I see where this thread has bounced around. Admittedly,
I was disappointed in the results but it doesn’t mean that this wouldn’t be a reasonable upgrade for some people, knowing up front about what power they’ll get.

but perhaps some new tuning will change my opinion.

 

[zfgracing]

Well ZFG I'm anxious to see what you can do. You going to leave the auto octane adjust or just run a straight octane tune?

99% of my tunes retain the auto octane as a safety, even the ones advertised as 93 octane only. Very rarely do I shut it off.

I've even done flex fuel with bigger turbos (pure turbos in this case which I do not recommend) but here were the result of flex fuel and dedicated E85. We didn't push much past what the stock turbos were capable of though.

I think people get hung up on looking at raptor vs regular f150 dyno charts in reality there is a big difference. Both a raptor and a non ho f150 dyno about the same 330 hp yet the crank hp is 375 vs 450 that tells you just how much more loss there is in the Raptor drivetrain between the gears and the heavier Wheels and tires. I've made a much as 582 whp on e85 on stock turbos on a non ho f150. Where as the raptor is only going to be 530-550 range on stock turbos. The non ho engine also has a half Point higher compression which means it responds better to e85 than the Raptor engine. All those factors add up too "disappointing" dyno numbers because I feel like you guys being Raptor guys look at the non ho dyno numbers thinking your raptor is going to do better which is just not the case. And I do think that there are vendors and Tuners out there that unrealistic expectations.


Realistically a raptor on pump gas on a conservative dyno he's got to make around 330 horsepower stock on 93 octane. A good 93 octane tune he's going to make 430 450 horsepower with a decent amount of bolt ons. Now in theory the CRP stage 4 turbos should be capable of adding about a hundred extra horsepower over stock turbos. But the problem on 93 octane, is well 93 octane at some point there is just too much cylinder pressure for that fuel, and to be honest you can hit that limit on the factory turbo is before the factory turbos are maxed out if you don't have the right bolt ons. The benefit of doing the CRP stage four or five Turbo is the turbine is bigger than that help with dump off some of the unproductive cylinder pressure by lowering the overall back pressure on the engine, that coupled with the better efficiency of the turbos allows us to make more power on 93 octane. But we are going to be nowhere near the maximum output for these turbos we will be limited by Fuel. The answer to that problem is of course he 85 which and this case is not available even on E85 though we will run out of "engine" before we run out of Turbo with the stage 4 and 5. These turbos are definitely capable of north of 630 wheel horsepower in the Raptor but doing that on a stock motor is not the smartest thing in the world.

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[dillard09]

I sound that you know what your talking about and have done your share of work and put in the time with these turbos. I like the idea of keeping the auto octane. Never know when you wanna pop a little E in your tank for some E30 or so blend or when you will be somewhere where 93 is not available.
Well I have a RMB stage 2 forged motor with ported heads, stage 4 turbos and manifolds and XDI-EVO HPFP. Im in the break in period of the motor currently. Ill be watching to see what you can do.
Thanks

 

[zfgracing]

I sound that you know what your talking about and have done your share of work and put in the time with these turbos. I like the idea of keeping the auto octane. Never know when you wanna pop a little E in your tank for some E30 or so blend or when you will be somewhere where 93 is not available.
Well I have a RMB stage 2 forged motor with ported heads, stage 4 turbos and manifolds and XDI-EVO HPFP. Im in the break in period of the motor currently. Ill be watching to see what you can do.
Thanks

You'll need a little more than hpfp-evo if you want to run e85, just an FYI. The evo is only capable of supporting the stock turbos on e85 anything past that and you should really do port injectors.

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[dillard09]

You'll need a little more than hpfp-evo if you want to run e85, just an FYI. The evo is only capable of supporting the stock turbos on e85 anything past that and you should really do port injectors.

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Yes sir. I never really thought about running full E85 just maybe a blend of up to E30 or so. I get a daily dose of 93 here in Texas but I do travel alot with the truck and go to alot of places that 93 is not available. And I hate having to swap tunes at gas stations. So I prefer now to keep the auto octane adjustments in. Happy to hear that you do that.
But now that you say E85 is not an option at all with my setup it has me thinking. If I was to bump some up some port injectors would the stock fuel pump be enough. I do have the JMS Fuelmax boost a pump would that be enough?