COBB Stage 1 First Impressions on 2019.

[Dirtypope]

I have around 2000 miles on my 2019 Raptor and I decided to buy in to all the hype about a Cobb tune because the lure of that much power, even on a 6000 lb. truck, is intoxicating to me.
I installed the tune last night and drove my truck to work this morning which consists of about a half hour commute of highway and local driving. Unfortunately I am somewhat disappointed. I had a Pedal Commander on the truck set at Sport + 4 and even in Normal Driving mode the truck was very quick. When I put it in Sport Mode with the PC, the throttle was a little difficult to control since it was so sensitive.
I have SPD Turbo Adapters and the Cobb Air Intake on my truck as well. Before driving this morning, I decided to turn off the PC and drive the truck in Normal Mode since I expected the Cobb tune to really wake the truck up. I even set the dynamic pedal control on the Cobb to 5 from the factory 3.
The truck feels sluggish and the pedal response is poor at best. Maybe I expected too much from all I've been reading and hearing about. The transmission does not seem any smoother with regards to shifting, and it still seems to search for the right gear. Maybe I'm just too difficult to please, but I can honestly say that driving the truck in Normal Mode with the PC dialed into Sport + 4 blows the Cobb Stage 1 away as far as overall feel with regards to responsiveness and throttle input. Perhaps this "generic" tune would work better being tweaked by a legitimate tuner that can customize it to each individual truck.
I'm not trying to bash any vendor or product, but I just want to give everyone my honest opinion, and this way, whatever decision is made one can do so with the knowledge of someone else's experience.
Since I'm already invested in this Cobb unit, I am going to play around with the settings a little more when I get the chance, in the hope of finding a "sweet spot" that Im happy with.
I'll keep everyone posted with a follow up when I do so.

 

[Guithues]

That sir, is what you call a convincing fact!

 

[sixshooter_45]

Good question! The difference you feel while in different drive modes, regardless of tuned or stock, will boil down really to two different things: 1) throttle translation, and 2) shift schedules/characteristics

Throttle translation is pretty simple. The accelerator pedal has a position sensor that can output a position signal, 0% to 100%. Throttle translation takes in the signal from this pedal position sensor and manipulates the signal to increase or decrease. The output signal, or Accelerator Pedal Position (Translated), is used to determine the amount of Requested Torque - a variable that is pretty far up-stream of the entire airflow and boost control strategy. For reference, there can be, and often is, a significant difference between pedal position and the actual angle of the throttle body.

Here are some examples from a stock 2018 Raptor:

• On a stock tune in 'Normal' drive mode, there is a 1:1 relationship between pedal position and translated pedal position. At 33% actual APP, APP Translated is 33%. At APP Translated of 33%, throttle requested torque at 3000RPM would equate to roughly 215 ft./lbs.

• On a stock tune in 'Sport' drive mode, the relationship between pedal position and translated pedal position is non-linear, and gives a more touchy or sensitive feel. At 33% actual APP, APP Translated is 42%. At APP Translated of 42%, throttle requested torque at 3000RPM will be roughly 310 ft./lbs.

But in both drive modes, 100% APP = 100% APP Translated. At 100% APP Translated at 3000RPM, torque request will be roughly 500 ft./lbs. So, you can see how this change in throttle translation can make the car feel a lot more peppy at low to mid pedal inputs, but still doesn't change the maximum amount of torque requests that the ECU and engine sees.

* These torque values are not to be considered actual measurements of output, and should be considered as rough, semi-arbitrary units that are used to model engine output.

When you flash a tune to your ECU, part of what we're doing is increasing the maximum amount of Requested Torque at 100% pedal position, as well as increasing low and mid-range requested torque to create a smoothly transitioning table, where power request tracks pretty linearly with pedal position input. Of course, there is a lot more that goes on outside of requested torque, such as optimizing safe ignition timing, ideal fueling, ideal cam position, etc. But this Throttle Requested Torque table is a good way to view, from a high level, what the sort of differences would be between how the truck behaves in different drive modes stock and tuned.

A cool feature of the Accessport, our OTS maps, and any Protune created in our AccesstunerPro software is the Dynamic Pedal Control (DPC) system. This allows you to tailor throttle translations to your exact preference, either more sensitive or less sensitive. But, again, a DPC setting of -5 or +10 will still give you the same WOT power. So at low pedal inputs, you could configure your Accessport-flashed map to feel very similar to a stock map, or a lot more sensitive than stock. But at WOT, you're going to feel that extra power no matter what. And all of this DPC adjustment can be done directly from your Accessport, without the need to reflash the car or even turn the engine off.



Shift schedules and shift characteristics also change depending on drive modes. For example, you'll notice that in Normal drive mode at low to mid throttle inputs, the transmission will skip shift 1 to 3, 3 to 5, etc. In Sport mode, skip shift does not occur; instead, the trans. will shift 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, etc. regardless of pedal input. This is because the change in the currently active drive mode has changed which shift schedule tables are being used by the transmission controller (TCM). This is just one example, and there are a LOT of other shift characteristics that are drive mode variable. While you might not be able to shave much time off of your 1/4 mile time with a transmission tune or in different drive modes, a tune can greatly change how the car feels in daily driving. That's why we're so eager to get TCM support out, and that's why it is the Ford team's highest priority.

One good thing to know with our product is that if you buy an Accessport now for ECU tuning, you will have the option to add on TCM support later without having to buy a new device. TCM support will be an additional cost feature, but you will be able to enable that feature by purchasing a license key that can be emailed to you. This is how we've implemented that feature for our ECU+TCM support on the Nissan GTR, Porsche PDK, and Volkswagen DSG platforms, so it is a simple, easy, and ironed-out process.

Best,
Sam@COBB

Will aPro-tuner be able to access your TCM program tables so that they can make any necessary adjustments for individual vehicles/ drivers preferences?

 

[RAG13]

UPDATE: OK, so here is a quick update on my Cobb Stage 1. I tried accessing the DPC on the Accessport, but I cant seem to get back to that screen. I will admit I was short on time so when the Accessport took more than 3 minutes I clicked it off and decided to turn my PC back on that I never disconnected but only turned off. I went back to my original setting of Sport +4 and I have to say, I did notice a difference at this setting with the Cobb Stage 1 installed. Truck pulls really hard but I do notice that a big limiting factor of a smooth pull is the transmission. It seems to be searching for the right gear and the shifts are very hard. I plan on revisiting the DPC on the Cobb Accessport and turning off the PC again. If I get the same results at level 8-10 on the Cobb DPC as I do with the PC at Sport +4, I will disconnect the PC for good.
I do believe that once Cobb comes up with the proper tuning for the transmission to go along with their engine tuning, it will make a world of difference.

 

[COBB Tuning]

Will aPro-tuner be able to access your TCM program tables so that they can make any necessary adjustments for individual vehicles/ drivers preferences?

Yessir, that is the plan. We will also be offering OTS trans. calibrations for those not wanting to get a custom tune.

UPDATE: OK, so here is a quick update on my Cobb Stage 1. I tried accessing the DPC on the Accessport, but I cant seem to get back to that screen. I will admit I was short on time so when the Accessport took more than 3 minutes I clicked it off and decided to turn my PC back on that I never disconnected but only turned off. I went back to my original setting of Sport +4 and I have to say, I did notice a difference at this setting with the Cobb Stage 1 installed. Truck pulls really hard but I do notice that a big limiting factor of a smooth pull is the transmission. It seems to be searching for the right gear and the shifts are very hard. I plan on revisiting the DPC on the Cobb Accessport and turning off the PC again. If I get the same results at level 8-10 on the Cobb DPC as I do with the PC at Sport +4, I will disconnect the PC for good.
I do believe that once Cobb comes up with the proper tuning for the transmission to go along with their engine tuning, it will make a world of difference.

To navigate to the DPC adjustment, plug your AP into the OBDII port. From the main menu, scroll down and select 'Tune', then select 'Adjustments'. You'll find the DPC adjustment there.

 

[RAG13]

out of curiosity, just because you’re the first person I’ve come across that runs the PC at full, do you have any other cars (specifically sports cars) that you’re comparing the feel too? I know the PC maxed out would be like full throttle at 5% input on the actual pedal... that would for sure give you the kick in the pants as these trucks have a healthy amount of torque.... maybe turn pedal control on the AP to 10 (max) to compare apples to apples?

you might not feel the increased peak power, or even really feel the power at all. What should happen is that the power delivery at equal comparisons will be better, the boost response will be better and the power curve will be smoother.

on my NA car that’s tuned (C63) the power was a little more noticeable because there is no turbo torque so an increase in power is easier to feel. This is the reason why I asked if you had another car.

Yes I have a PC on my 2009 Lambo also with a tune of the ECU as well as the Egear. I noticed a big jump in power with the tune as well as an even bigger "perceived" jump in power with the PC. I dont have pre Dyno info on the Lambo, but just with the tune alone and an exhaust, it dynoed at 516 RWH. Of course the car is just around 3500 lbs as well so its difficult to compare that to a 6000 lb. truck. I just wrote an update about running the Cobb tune with my PC turned on, a big difference in feel!

 

[RAG13]

Yessir, that is the plan. We will also be offering OTS trans. calibrations for those not wanting to get a custom tune.



To navigate to the DPC adjustment, plug your AP into the OBDII port. From the main menu, scroll down and select 'Tune', then select 'Adjustments'. You'll find the DPC adjustment there.

Yes, I did that, it just seem to take a while for the screen to come up. Like I said I was in a hurry and really didnt give it a fair chance. I will be giving it another try this afternoon.

 

[RAG13]

???

 

[COBB Tuning]

Yes, I did that, it just seem to take a while for the screen to come up. Like I said I was in a hurry and really didnt give it a fair chance. I will be giving it another try this afternoon.

Roger that. There shouldn't be any delay - no more than 1-2 seconds - for that to come up on the screen. Double check that the OBDII cable is fully seated in the port. Also, make sure that either the engine is running or that the push-button start is in the 'On' position.

If after doing these things, you still can't get it to come on, go to the 'Gauges' function on the main menu and see if you can pull up any random monitor to view. This will verify whether or not the AP is communicating with the ECU. If it won't pull up the gauges, consider turning off and/or unplugging the Pedal Commander - it's possible that however that device is communicating on the vehicle network is interfering with the AP's ability to communicate.

 

[RAG13]

Roger that. There shouldn't be any delay - no more than 1-2 seconds - for that to come up on the screen. Double check that the OBDII cable is fully seated in the port. Also, make sure that either the engine is running or that the push-button start is in the 'On' position.

If after doing these things, you still can't get it to come on, go to the 'Gauges' function on the main menu and see if you can pull up any random monitor to view. This will verify whether or not the AP is communicating with the ECU. If it won't pull up the gauges, consider turning off and/or unplugging the Pedal Commander - it's possible that however that device is communicating on the vehicle network is interfering with the AP's ability to communicate.

Thank you!