COBB Stage 1 First Impressions on 2019.

[Cole Weezy]

I have around 2000 miles on my 2019 Raptor and I decided to buy in to all the hype about a Cobb tune because the lure of that much power, even on a 6000 lb. truck, is intoxicating to me.
I installed the tune last night and drove my truck to work this morning which consists of about a half hour commute of highway and local driving. Unfortunately I am somewhat disappointed. I had a Pedal Commander on the truck set at Sport + 4 and even in Normal Driving mode the truck was very quick. When I put it in Sport Mode with the PC, the throttle was a little difficult to control since it was so sensitive.
I have SPD Turbo Adapters and the Cobb Air Intake on my truck as well. Before driving this morning, I decided to turn off the PC and drive the truck in Normal Mode since I expected the Cobb tune to really wake the truck up. I even set the dynamic pedal control on the Cobb to 5 from the factory 3.
The truck feels sluggish and the pedal response is poor at best. Maybe I expected too much from all I've been reading and hearing about. The transmission does not seem any smoother with regards to shifting, and it still seems to search for the right gear. Maybe I'm just too difficult to please, but I can honestly say that driving the truck in Normal Mode with the PC dialed into Sport + 4 blows the Cobb Stage 1 away as far as overall feel with regards to responsiveness and throttle input. Perhaps this "generic" tune would work better being tweaked by a legitimate tuner that can customize it to each individual truck.
I'm not trying to bash any vendor or product, but I just want to give everyone my honest opinion, and this way, whatever decision is made one can do so with the knowledge of someone else's experience.
Since I'm already invested in this Cobb unit, I am going to play around with the settings a little more when I get the chance, in the hope of finding a "sweet spot" that Im happy with.
I'll keep everyone posted with a follow up when I do so.

MPT will not disappoint. Awesome tune.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TurboTJ]

Good question! The difference you feel while in different drive modes, regardless of tuned or stock, will boil down really to two different things: 1) throttle translation, and 2) shift schedules/characteristics

Throttle translation is pretty simple. The accelerator pedal has a position sensor that can output a position signal, 0% to 100%. Throttle translation takes in the signal from this pedal position sensor and manipulates the signal to increase or decrease. The output signal, or Accelerator Pedal Position (Translated), is used to determine the amount of Requested Torque - a variable that is pretty far up-stream of the entire airflow and boost control strategy. For reference, there can be, and often is, a significant difference between pedal position and the actual angle of the throttle body.

Here are some examples from a stock 2018 Raptor:

• On a stock tune in 'Normal' drive mode, there is a 1:1 relationship between pedal position and translated pedal position. At 33% actual APP, APP Translated is 33%. At APP Translated of 33%, throttle requested torque at 3000RPM would equate to roughly 215 ft./lbs.

• On a stock tune in 'Sport' drive mode, the relationship between pedal position and translated pedal position is non-linear, and gives a more touchy or sensitive feel. At 33% actual APP, APP Translated is 42%. At APP Translated of 42%, throttle requested torque at 3000RPM will be roughly 310 ft./lbs.

But in both drive modes, 100% APP = 100% APP Translated. At 100% APP Translated at 3000RPM, torque request will be roughly 500 ft./lbs. So, you can see how this change in throttle translation can make the car feel a lot more peppy at low to mid pedal inputs, but still doesn't change the maximum amount of torque requests that the ECU and engine sees.

* These torque values are not to be considered actual measurements of output, and should be considered as rough, semi-arbitrary units that are used to model engine output.

When you flash a tune to your ECU, part of what we're doing is increasing the maximum amount of Requested Torque at 100% pedal position, as well as increasing low and mid-range requested torque to create a smoothly transitioning table, where power request tracks pretty linearly with pedal position input. Of course, there is a lot more that goes on outside of requested torque, such as optimizing safe ignition timing, ideal fueling, ideal cam position, etc. But this Throttle Requested Torque table is a good way to view, from a high level, what the sort of differences would be between how the truck behaves in different drive modes stock and tuned.

A cool feature of the Accessport, our OTS maps, and any Protune created in our AccesstunerPro software is the Dynamic Pedal Control (DPC) system. This allows you to tailor throttle translations to your exact preference, either more sensitive or less sensitive. But, again, a DPC setting of -5 or +10 will still give you the same WOT power. So at low pedal inputs, you could configure your Accessport-flashed map to feel very similar to a stock map, or a lot more sensitive than stock. But at WOT, you're going to feel that extra power no matter what. And all of this DPC adjustment can be done directly from your Accessport, without the need to reflash the car or even turn the engine off.



Shift schedules and shift characteristics also change depending on drive modes. For example, you'll notice that in Normal drive mode at low to mid throttle inputs, the transmission will skip shift 1 to 3, 3 to 5, etc. In Sport mode, skip shift does not occur; instead, the trans. will shift 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, etc. regardless of pedal input. This is because the change in the currently active drive mode has changed which shift schedule tables are being used by the transmission controller (TCM). This is just one example, and there are a LOT of other shift characteristics that are drive mode variable. While you might not be able to shave much time off of your 1/4 mile time with a transmission tune or in different drive modes, a tune can greatly change how the car feels in daily driving. That's why we're so eager to get TCM support out, and that's why it is the Ford team's highest priority.

One good thing to know with our product is that if you buy an Accessport now for ECU tuning, you will have the option to add on TCM support later without having to buy a new device. TCM support will be an additional cost feature, but you will be able to enable that feature by purchasing a license key that can be emailed to you. This is how we've implemented that feature for our ECU+TCM support on the Nissan GTR, Porsche PDK, and Volkswagen DSG platforms, so it is a simple, easy, and ironed-out process.

Best,
Sam@COBB

Thanks for all the great info Sam! I run an AP on my Evo and might get another for my Raptor. One question - according to the factory AFR gauge (which I assume is a WBO2 but I could be wrong), the raptors run super rich. South of 14:1 during light throttle and cruising. Does the AP lean these areas out? Is there any change in MPG’s with the OTS Cobb tune? Do you guys modify the light load characteristics?

 

[COBB Tuning]

Thanks for all the great info Sam! I run an AP on my Evo and might get another for my Raptor. One question - according to the factory AFR gauge (which I assume is a WBO2 but I could be wrong), the raptors run super rich. South of 14:1 during light throttle and cruising. Does the AP lean these areas out? Is there any change in MPG’s with the OTS Cobb tune? Do you guys modify the light load characteristics?

For emissions quality and fuel economy, we leave fueling in light to mid load and cruising ranges unchanged. There is a lot of engineering work from Ford built into the factory calibration to make the truck as clean and efficient as possible, and we as a company want to maintain those aspects.

The truck has two wideband O2 sensors (one per bank of cylinders). With an Accessport, you can monitor AFR per bank as well as an averaged value. Based on your description of what that dashboard/instrument panel AFR gauge is telling you under light load/cruising, I would not expect it to be very accurate. On a factory tune or a Cobb OTS map, light to medium load and cruising will operate at stoich. with small, regular oscillations above and below (+/- ~0.5 AFR).

 

[RAG13]

For emissions quality and fuel economy, we leave fueling in light to mid load and cruising ranges unchanged. There is a lot of engineering work from Ford built into the factory calibration to make the truck as clean and efficient as possible, and we as a company want to maintain those aspects.

The truck has two wideband O2 sensors (one per bank of cylinders). With an Accessport, you can monitor AFR per bank as well as an averaged value. Based on your description of what that dashboard/instrument panel AFR gauge is telling you under light load/cruising, I would not expect it to be very accurate. On a factory tune or a Cobb OTS map, light to medium load and cruising will operate at stoich. with small, regular oscillations above and below (+/- ~0.5 AFR).

Thanks Sam. I'm just a "plug and play" type of guy where I dont get too involved with all of the detailed aspects of the tune. I just read, plus *** HP and plus *** Torque and I'm in. I leave all the intricate nuances to the smart guys like you and your staff. That being said, it is very interesting to see how much detail goes into these tunes and why it takes time to develop a new one.

 

[Aventador22]

How much additional power do the different stages net you? I'm interested in tuning my truck soon but not sure if I should do the higher stages.

 

[COBB Tuning]

How much additional power do the different stages net you? I'm interested in tuning my truck soon but not sure if I should do the higher stages.

Here is a link to our Map Notes for Raptor: https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/PRS/pages/725155894/Ford+Raptor+Map+Notes

We rate all of our power gains for every vehicle we support in % over a stock baseline. This accounts for any dyno-to-dyno variance in actual WHP/WTQ.

Stage 1 93: +15.32% HP / +17.07% TQ
Stage 2 93: +23.54% HP / +20.93% TQ

Supporting physical modifications for each stage are listed in the Map Notes.

For reference, a typical stock Raptor will put down between 360-380 WHP and 470-490 WTQ on our Dynojet.

The absolute best modification you can do for your truck is an intercooler. Not only will this allow the engine to make more peak power, but you'll be able to avoid the considerable heat soak that occurs during heavy acceleration and even normal daily driving on the road. Here's a link to show some of the data we collected during the development of the intercooler:

https://www.cobbtuning.com/f-150-raptor-front-mount-intercooler-testing/

 

[RAG13]

I was told that with the Stage 1 tune a new intercooler would not be necessary, but with the additional power upgrade of the Stage 2 it would be necesaary.

UPDATE on DPC with Stage 1.
OK so I set the DPC on my Stage 1 Accessport to its maximum setting of 10. With the truck in "Normal" driving mode, I do notice a slight increase in pedal sensitivity, but not as much as with the Pedal Commander set at Sport +4. Its not until I put the Truck in "Sport" mode with the DPC set at 10 and the PC completely off do I notice a clear difference in pedal sensitivity and a slight increase in overall power, I'm assuming from the tune. Please understand these are just MY perceptions of how the truck is responding to the different settings. My overall "unscientific" conclusion is the PC is an awesome addition, not to add power, but to allow you to use the power you have more easily and cleanly. The Cobb Stage 1 tune with the DPC set at 10 and the truck in "Sport" mode is the ONLY way I would drive it to actually appreciate the additional power added by the Cobb Stage 1 tune. Is it "night and day?" NO, it is not. At least not for me. I also have the Cobb air intake and SPD turbo adapters. I had assumed, perhaps incorrectly" that with NO other inputs, DPC set at 10, or PC set at Sport +4, I would notice a real "seat of the pants" difference. I did not. Perhaps the Stage 2, with an aftermarket IC will be what I am looking for. I dont know. At this point I am a little reluctant to drop money on a new IC, the labor involved to install it, and the Stage 2, since I was dissapointed in the Stage 1 after reading so many positive things about it.
Maybe, I'll wait for Cobb to come out with their new transmission tune and try that. Maybe that will allow the power that their engine tune puts out to be used properly. Cobb says that the stock Raptor will put down between 360 and 380 RWHP. If you take the average of 370 and add their Stage 1 +15.32% advertised gain, this would net you 426 RWHP, a gain of about 56RWHP. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that would be enough to actually feel pretty easily, but maybe on an almost 6000 lb. truck its just not that noticeable.

 

[Chris Mies]

An upgrade to Stage 2 requires an IC, but the maps are free!

 

[Nood1es]

I was told that with the Stage 1 tune a new intercooler would not be necessary, but with the additional power upgrade of the Stage 2 it would be necesaary.

UPDATE on DPC with Stage 1.
OK so I set the DPC on my Stage 1 Accessport to its maximum setting of 10. With the truck in "Normal" driving mode, I do notice a slight increase in pedal sensitivity, but not as much as with the Pedal Commander set at Sport +4. Its not until I put the Truck in "Sport" mode with the DPC set at 10 and the PC completely off do I notice a clear difference in pedal sensitivity and a slight increase in overall power, I'm assuming from the tune. Please understand these are just MY perceptions of how the truck is responding to the different settings. My overall "unscientific" conclusion is the PC is an awesome addition, not to add power, but to allow you to use the power you have more easily and cleanly. The Cobb Stage 1 tune with the DPC set at 10 and the truck in "Sport" mode is the ONLY way I would drive it to actually appreciate the additional power added by the Cobb Stage 1 tune. Is it "night and day?" NO, it is not. At least not for me. I also have the Cobb air intake and SPD turbo adapters. I had assumed, perhaps incorrectly" that with NO other inputs, DPC set at 10, or PC set at Sport +4, I would notice a real "seat of the pants" difference. I did not. Perhaps the Stage 2, with an aftermarket IC will be what I am looking for. I dont know. At this point I am a little reluctant to drop money on a new IC, the labor involved to install it, and the Stage 2, since I was dissapointed in the Stage 1 after reading so many positive things about it.
Maybe, I'll wait for Cobb to come out with their new transmission tune and try that. Maybe that will allow the power that their engine tune puts out to be used properly. Cobb says that the stock Raptor will put down between 360 and 380 RWHP. If you take the average of 370 and add their Stage 1 +15.32% advertised gain, this would net you 426 RWHP, a gain of about 56RWHP. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that would be enough to actually feel pretty easily, but maybe on an almost 6000 lb. truck its just not that noticeable.

Part it out.

 

[patire19]

im using the stage 1 with a 93 oct tune and i thought the truck was night and day difference faster. I havent even adjusted the DPC, this is just in regular mode as well. I dont know if something is wrong with your truck or the tune didnt install correctly because the difference in power is noticeable by most people who get in the truck with me.