Cam Phaser Fix

[FatBuoy]

I should be getting mine back today from the dealer. Phasers and transmission. Really hoping they are going to surprise me with swapping in 2022 Raptor V-8! [emoji1787]


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[fordraptorfun]

Anyone know what the internal difference is between “CD” and “CC”? Confidence in the “CD” is low given that it’s the 3rd revision on the Gen2 and this has been a problem on F-150s going all the way back to the 5.4L Triton V8. I suspect that this is more of a systemic problem and not a component deficiency. Now I have to consider a PowertrainCare ESP before the 60k factory Powertrain warranty runs out.

 

[FordTechOne]

Anyone know what the internal difference is between “CD” and “CC”? Confidence in the “CD” is low given that it’s the 3rd revision on the Gen2 and this has been a problem on F-150s going all the way back to the 5.4L Triton. I suspect that this is more of a systemic problem and not a component deficiency. Now I have to consider a PowertrainCare ESP before the 60k factory Powertrain warranty runs out.

You're suspecting wrong, because you don't know what you're talking about. There is no "systematic problem", nor has this "been an issue" since the 5.4 3V Triton; those used a completely different cam phaser and did not have a cold start rattle issue. Ford resolved the issue with those by redesigning the solenoids; only the early ones had the issue. The only other time they fail is due to cheap aftermarket oil filters or a lack of maintenance, which results in cam journal scoring and a loss of oil pressure at the heads.

The issue that affects some 2017 and early 2018 Gen 2 3.5 EcoBoosts is related to the locking pin failing to properly engage upon shutdown. This causes the phaser to oscillate (rattle) until oil pressure is received. Not every phaser will have the issue. The CC level part revised tolerances and has proven to be much more reliable. The CD part was redesigned to prevent the failure mode from occurring regardless. If you want to see the internal differences you'd have to search through @RMB_Ryan posts, he disassembled them in one of the threads.

 

[FatBuoy]

Can it damage anything if left to rattle for a length of time with fixing it?


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[FordTechOne]

Can it damage anything if left to rattle for a length of time with fixing it?


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Not if it's just a momentary rattle on cold start. If the phaser has failed in a different mode and there are performance issues or noises while running, then that should be addressed ASAP.

 

[FatBuoy]

Not if it's just a momentary rattle on cold start. If the phaser has failed in a different mode and there are performance issues or noises while running, then that should be addressed ASAP.

Ok, thanks. It was only on startup, but had been doing it, and progressively getting worse, for maybe 1.5 years.


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[fordraptorfun]

You're suspecting wrong, because you don't know what you're talking about. There is no "systematic problem", nor has this "been an issue" since the 5.4 3V Triton; those used a completely different cam phaser and did not have a cold start rattle issue. Ford resolved the issue with those by redesigning the solenoids; only the early ones had the issue. The only other time they fail is due to cheap aftermarket oil filters or a lack of maintenance, which results in cam journal scoring and a loss of oil pressure at the heads.

The issue that affects some 2017 and early 2018 Gen 2 3.5 EcoBoosts is related to the locking pin failing to properly engage upon shutdown. This causes the phaser to oscillate (rattle) until oil pressure is received. Not every phaser will have the issue. The CC level part revised tolerances and has proven to be much more reliable. The CD part was redesigned to prevent the failure mode from occurring regardless. If you want to see the internal differences you'd have to search through @RMB_Ryan posts, he disassembled them in one of the threads.

There are plenty of YouTube videos describing very similar cam phaser symptoms occurring on the Triton engines. There are also videos of non-Raptor 3.5L EcoBoost engines exhibiting the same cold start rattle.

That history suggests some something systemic, as these are not issues observed in other VVT engines from other manufacturers.

 

[Wfo]

I have a late production 18. I use Amsoil filter and synthetic oil, I change oil between 3 and 4K. I currently have 34500 miles with no issues.

 

[FordTechOne]

There are plenty of YouTube videos describing very similar cam phaser symptoms occurring on the Triton engines. There are also videos of non-Raptor 3.5L EcoBoost engines exhibiting the same cold start rattle.

You need to take a step back from google and youtube; you're making yourself paranoid. The Triton cam phaser issue was not very similar at all, in fact it was completely different. The 5.4 3V issue didn't exhibit a rattle on startup; it had an issue with a loss of phaser control at hot idle, which caused phaser knock to occur. The revised solenoids alleviated the issue.

As far as non-Raptor Gen 2 EcoBoosts, the design is the same and the phasers are the same part number. Not sure what your point is.

That history suggests some something systemic, as these are not issues observed in other VVT engines from other manufacturers.

History of your posts suggests that you do not work in the automotive industry nor have any credentials in the field. A VCT locking pin failure can affect any phaser of any brand, model, or supplier. Ford is fixing the faulty ones under powertrain warranty with updated parts to prevent a future occurrence.

As far as other manufacturers, you prove once again that you are not knowledgeable on phaser operation. Unlike Ford, they didn't update the part, just let the consumer pay out of pocket once the warranty is over:

https://www.underhoodservice.com/tech-tip-honda-accord-cr-v-rattle-start/

 

[fordraptorfun]

You need to take a step back from google and youtube; you're making yourself paranoid. The Triton cam phaser issue was not very similar at all, in fact it was completely different. The 5.4 3V issue didn't exhibit a rattle on startup; it had an issue with a loss of phaser control at hot idle, which caused phaser knock to occur. The revised solenoids alleviated the issue.

As far as non-Raptor Gen 2 EcoBoosts, the design is the same and the phasers are the same part number. Not sure what your point is.



History of your posts suggests that you do not work in the automotive industry nor have any credentials in the field. A VCT locking pin failure can affect any phaser of any brand, model, or supplier. Ford is fixing the faulty ones under powertrain warranty with updated parts to prevent a future occurrence.

As far as other manufacturers, you prove once again that you are not knowledgeable on phaser operation. Unlike Ford, they didn't update the part, just let the consumer pay out of pocket once the warranty is over:

https://www.underhoodservice.com/tech-tip-honda-accord-cr-v-rattle-start/

You’re right. I don’t work in the automotive industry. Most people don’t and have to rely on the shared sources such as this. No need to be condescending to concerned and frustrated Ford customers.

Since you work in the auto industry and have credentials in the field, what’s the internal design improvement of the CD phaser that gives you such high confidence? Any Objective Quality Evidence or empirical data to support something that has only been in the field < 2 yrs?