Cam Phaser Fix

[2018F150Eco35Owner]

With the noise you’re describing being unrelated to the TSB, there are a number of things that could be at fault. If the dealer has isolated it to an upper end noise caused by a faulty cam phaser, I would suspect that as root cause. If they’ve indicated that you can continue to drive it, they must have determined that the failure mode that has occurred is not detrimental to engine performance. Once they open the front cover they will be able to determine if any additional components need to be replaced, but that is not common.

Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure I understand your first comment though. Why would you say my engine noise is unrelated to the TSB? Is the TSB you are referring to only for the initial startup noise where the Cam phaser locking pin isn't engaged or broken and rattles until oil pressure is received? I also have that startup rattle. So maybe my failure mode is the broken locking pin that also causes the knocking after warmup? They did indicated that there was a TSB for the Cam Phaser failure causing my engine knocking. I will update this post after my repairs and include what the dealer technician found when he opened the front cover.

Thanks Again!

Just to add some extra detail. After the initial cold start rattling noise (common to cam phaser issues) it takes about 10 minutes of warm up in the current 30 degree weather before I can hear the knocking while driving or just letting it sit and idle. After the knocking starts it continues until the engine is shut off no matter if its a 15 min drive or a 3hr drive.

My truck has never been low on oil and I do not have any oil leaks. The oil has been changed regularly as soon as the light comes on if not before and I have always done it myself. I always use premium full synthetic oil and K&N oil filters along running premium gas.

Prior to my 2018 with the 3.5 Eco I had a 2015 with the 3.5 Eco. I traded the 2015 in at 80k miles still running and sounding great! I never had any engine rattles or knocks the entire 80K. (it did go into limp mode once when the electronic throttle body stuck but I quickly and easily fixed that myself by replacing it with a new, larger high performance BBK throttle body and never had another issue). Wishing I still had the 2015 now. Not just because of the knocking but also the performance of the 6 speed transmission over the newer 10 speed in the 2018 F150.

 

[FordTechOne]

Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure I understand your first comment though. Why would you say my engine noise is unrelated to the TSB? Is the TSB you are referring to only for the initial startup noise where the Cam phaser locking pin isn't engaged or broken and rattles until oil pressure is received? I also have that startup rattle.

Yes, the TSB only addresses a rattle noise on cold start.

So maybe my failure mode is the broken locking pin that also causes the knocking after warmup? They did indicated that there was a TSB for the Cam Phaser failure causing my engine knocking. I will update this post after my repairs and include what the dealer technician found when he opened the front cover.

Thanks Again!

No. The phaser locking pin only exists to hold timing stationary until oil pressure is received after a cold start. A knock noise when warm is unrelated to a locking pin failure. However, a phaser with internal damage could exhibit both conditions.

 

[FordTechOne]

Prior to my 2018 with the 3.5 Eco I had a 2015 with the 3.5 Eco. I traded the 2015 in at 80k miles still running and sounding great! I never had any engine rattles or knocks the entire 80K. (it did go into limp mode once when the electronic throttle body stuck but I quickly and easily fixed that myself by replacing it with a new, larger high performance BBK throttle body and never had another issue). Wishing I still had the 2015 now. Not just because of the knocking but also the performance and durability of the 6 speed transmission over the newer 10 speed in the 2018 F150.

The 2015 was a Gen 1 EcoBoost, the 2017+ including Raptor is the Gen 2 EcoBoost. The entire engine was updated, including the timing drive and cam phasers. The design of the Gen 2 phasers is shared with the 2.7 Nano; however, some early 2017/2018 models had issues with the phasers properly locking after a cold soak.

The 10R80 outperforms the 6R80 in every regard with no sacrifice in durability, not sure why you would assume otherwise.

 

[nikhsub1]

The 2015 was a Gen 1 EcoBoost, the 2017+ including Raptor is the Gen 2 EcoBoost. The entire engine was updated, including the timing drive and cam phasers. The design of the Gen 2 phasers is shared with the 2.7 Nano; however, some early 2017/2018 models had issues with the phasers properly locking after a cold soak.

The 10R80 outperforms the 6R80 in every regard with no sacrifice in durability, not sure why you would assume otherwise.

i LOVE the 10R80.

 

[2018F150Eco35Owner]

The 2015 was a Gen 1 EcoBoost, the 2017+ including Raptor is the Gen 2 EcoBoost. The entire engine was updated, including the timing drive and cam phasers. The design of the Gen 2 phasers is shared with the 2.7 Nano; however, some early 2017/2018 models had issues with the phasers properly locking after a cold soak.

The 10R80 outperforms the 6R80 in every regard with no sacrifice in durability, not sure why you would assume otherwise.

It's 100 percent from my experience driving with both transmissions. I never had any hesitation or issue with the 6R80. From day 1 the 10R80 could not decide what gear it should be in on cold starts ,and for several in-town stops and starts after that, until its warmed up a little. The transmission seems to jump all over the place between 1st and 4th gears (and you can see this on the instrumentation panel also) like its slipping in and out of neutral then finally jerks into a gear. It has actually left me waving other people through a 4 way stop until it finally picked a gear (pretty pathetic for a brand new flagship truck IMO). I'm not a person to get in a cold truck and take off like a jack rabbit either. I always let the engine warm up and then take off like any normal driver would. I took it to the dealership 3 times for this in the first year and every time they said that was expected operation and that It was trying to learn my driving style. BS. I would much rather have a 6 speed with absolutely no hesitation and quick smooth shifting every time. Maybe I got a lemon transmission too but so far it hasn't gotten any worse and once it worms up it seems to work OK. However, IMO it still doesn't perform/shift near as well as my 2015 6R80 and that takes away from the driving experience in my book. I've had to adjust my driving for my 10R80, and make it a point to start off slower and baby it for the first several blocks to reduce the jumping between gears until the transmission has warmed up some.

But I admit I was wrong including "and durability" in my comment. I can't really comment on the durability of the 10R80 at this point since it hasn't actually broke down or left me stranded any where. That was just speculation on my part from thinking any transmission that slips and jerks around (like mine does until it warms up) probably won't last very long

 

[Oldfart]

It's 100 percent from my experience driving with both transmissions. I never had any hesitation or issue with the 6R80. From day 1 the 10R80 could not decide what gear it should be in on cold starts ,and for several in-town stops and starts after that, until its warmed up a little. The transmission seems to jump all over the place between 1st and 4th gears (and you can see this on the instrumentation panel also) like its slipping in and out of neutral then finally jerks into a gear. It has actually left me waving other people through a 4 way stop until it finally picked a gear (pretty pathetic for a brand new flagship truck IMO). I'm not a person to get in a cold truck and take off like a jack rabbit either. I always let the engine warm up and then take off like any normal driver would. I took it to the dealership 3 times for this in the first year and every time they said that was expected operation and that It was trying to learn my driving style. BS. I would much rather have a 6 speed with absolutely no hesitation and quick smooth shifting every time. Maybe I got a lemon transmission too but so far it hasn't gotten any worse and once it worms up it seems to work OK. However, IMO it still doesn't perform/shift near as well as my 2015 6R80 and that takes away from the driving experience in my book. I've had to adjust my driving for my 10R80, and make it a point to start off slower and baby it for the first several blocks to reduce the jumping between gears until the transmission has warmed up some.

But I admit I was wrong including "and durability" in my comment. I can't really comment on the durability of the 10R80 at this point since it hasn't actually broke down or left me stranded any where. That was just speculation on my part from thinking any transmission that slips and jerks around (like mine does until it warms up) probably won't last very long

I would go to another dealer and have the trans checked. If mine shifted like you say yours does, I would not quit until someone fixed it. I think the 10 speed trans is awesome. Mine has never acted up, cold or warm, and it seems really good at anticipating what gear to be in.

 

[FordTechOne]

It's 100 percent from my experience driving with both transmissions. I never had any hesitation or issue with the 6R80. From day 1 the 10R80 could not decide what gear it should be in on cold starts ,and for several in-town stops and starts after that, until its warmed up a little. The transmission seems to jump all over the place between 1st and 4th gears (and you can see this on the instrumentation panel also) like its slipping in and out of neutral then finally jerks into a gear. It has actually left me waving other people through a 4 way stop until it finally picked a gear (pretty pathetic for a brand new flagship truck IMO). I'm not a person to get in a cold truck and take off like a jack rabbit either. I always let the engine warm up and then take off like any normal driver would. I took it to the dealership 3 times for this in the first year and every time they said that was expected operation and that It was trying to learn my driving style. BS. I would much rather have a 6 speed with absolutely no hesitation and quick smooth shifting every time. Maybe I got a lemon transmission too but so far it hasn't gotten any worse and once it worms up it seems to work OK. However, IMO it still doesn't perform/shift near as well as my 2015 6R80 and that takes away from the driving experience in my book. I've had to adjust my driving for my 10R80, and make it a point to start off slower and baby it for the first several blocks to reduce the jumping between gears until the transmission has warmed up some.

On a cold start (20 degree F here today) the transmission will shift slower and hold gears longer. That’s normal cold strategy; it can make the shifts feel as if they’re slurred together. After a few miles my trans temp was up to 100, and it was shifting as expected again.

That being said, neutraling out, hesitating and then shifting harshly into gear, and a delay taking off from a stop is not normal. A calibration update was released for certain 2018 models; can you provide your trucks build date?

 

[2018F150Eco35Owner]

Yes, the TSB only addresses a rattle noise on cold start.



A knock noise when warm is unrelated to a locking pin failure. However, a phaser with internal damage could exhibit both conditions.

"However, a phaser with internal damage could exhibit both conditions."

I should know soon if the phasers were the cause of both the start up rattle and the constant knocking after warm up. I just dropped my 2018 F150 3.5 Eco off at the dealer and they plan on just replacing the phasers under the TSB since they say that is all that Ford will cover.

I have found numerous posts describing my exact problem and stating the phasers, tensioners, guides, and sometimes chains were replaced to properly fix the issue in addition to one saying its possible the VCT solenoid could also need replaced along with a pcm flash with the new parameters . Hopefully the Tech working on my truck will go the extra mile and check the rest of the parts that could be damaged by this VCT system failure.

This is #4 from the first page of this discussion: CWH from Denver
"Just reported my issue to my dealer. They said there is a TSB for this. Replace all 4 phasers, check chain, replace tensioners and only replace solenoids if they need it. I have an 18 raptor ...."

Hmmm, must be a different TSB than the one my dealership is referring too?

Does anyone know of another TSB or 2 that covers replacing the tensioners/guides/chains that my dealership could be missing? Did anyone get the Phasers, tensioners, guides and chain replaced on a Gen 2 - 3.5 EcoBoost during the initial Phaser repair while still under warranty?

 

[FordTechOne]

I have found numerous posts describing my exact problem and stating the phasers, tensioners, guides, and sometimes chains were replaced to properly fix the issue in addition to one saying its possible the VCT solenoid could also need replaced along with a pcm flash with the new parameters . Hopefully the Tech working on my truck will go the extra mile and check the rest of the parts that could be damaged by this VCT system failure.

A phaser concern does not require replacement of any other timing related components unless a visual concern is identified. In previous TSBs, dealers were replacing timing components unnecessarily.

This is #4 from the first page of this discussion: CWH from Denver
"Just reported my issue to my dealer. They said there is a TSB for this. Replace all 4 phasers, check chain, replace tensioners and only replace solenoids if they need it. I have an 18 raptor ...."

That is simply incorrect information. No TSB ever advised that any timing components other than the VCT phasers be replaced. The VCT solenoids are also unrelated.

Hmmm, must be a different TSB than the one my dealership is referring too?

Does anyone know of another TSB or 2 that covers replacing the tensioners/guides/chains that my dealership could be missing? Did anyone get the Phasers, tensioners, guides and chain replaced on a Gen 2 - 3.5 EcoBoost during the initial Phaser repair while still under warranty?

There is no reason to replace parts that have nothing wrong with them. There is only one TSB for this issue, which supersedes all previous versions, none of which ever stated to replace any timing components other than the VCT phasers.

 

[Danactive]

im currently in the market for a 2gen and this scares the living crap outta me and makes me start to think i should be looking for a different truck... other than the ticking noise being unbearable does it cause any actual damage or is it just the sound?