Cam Phaser/ Engine Failure Poll

Have you had or have a cam phaser or engine failure on your Gen 2?


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OPT PRIME

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While I appreciate your attempt to rationalize this issue, that is not quite reality.

When the engine is started, the phasers (when functioning properly) are in a locked position. Without oil pressure reaching them, they will remain in that state. Once oil pressure has built up and the solenoid allows oil to flow the the phaser, the timing can be controlled.

If the phaser has failed and does not enter the locked position, camshaft timing is dependent on the phaser spring mechanism. When oil pressure reaches the phaser via the solenoid, the phaser rattles as the oil pressure begins to control the position.

The oil pumps on these engines are more than sufficient. In fact, the pump is variable. If you monitor your oil pressure in your gauge view, you'll notice that it changes with load; it is not proportional to engine RPM like a traditional oil pump. This allows oil pressure to be increased with engine load, and reduced at idle and deceleration. That increases oil pump life, reduces oil shear/wear, and increases engine efficiency.

The timing chain tensioners are spring loaded. That is how the engine doesn't jump time on initial start. The oil pressure is only there to act as a damper and provide additional force on the tensioner under load. If the timing chain rattles during a cold start (Nissan VQ, I'm looking at you) the chain is stretched, the guide is broken, or the tensioner has failed.

Please know that when you make assumptions, people will sometimes read them as fact. We don't need to create false perceptions here.

Thanks for chiming in, its great to have a pro in the forum. Everything you said makes sense, just have one particular question. The oil pressure gauge never seems to move, the PID for oil pressure doesn’t generate a variable. Are you sure the oil pressure gauge shows a difference between loads and doesn’t reflect a simple yes or no value?




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FordTechOne

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Thanks for chiming in, its great to have a pro in the forum. Everything you said makes sense, just have one particular question. The oil pressure gauge never seems to move, the PID for oil pressure doesn’t generate a variable. Are you sure the oil pressure gauge shows a difference between loads and doesn’t reflect a simple yes or no value?

Do you have the 8" Instrument Cluster? It has an option to view all readings...everything from oil pressure to charge air temperature in real time. That is where you will see the oil pressure change based on engine load. The main Instrument Cluster gauge will only show an average as to not cause alarm from varying pressures.
 

ddpt

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How many 2018 and 2019 have the phaser problems?

I would hope 2020 won't have any

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Colby Ownbey

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So my 18' Raptor went to Ford on 9/2 with cam phaser noise. I was called on Friday the 13th to inform me they put everything back together and it was making a different noise. Went to dealership yesterday and was told that I have a bent valve in the head. Apparently one of the pistons hit the valve.

My question is if this could have been on the dealership after they replaced one of the cam phasers, could they have messed with the time and created this new issue?

Thanks!
 

OPT PRIME

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My question is if this could have been on the dealership after they replaced one of the cam phasers, could they have messed with the time and created this new issue?

Thanks!

Absolutely, likely during re-assembly. My mechanic said he had once messed up the setting of the timing chain and bent a customers valve and he’s a really good tech. It doesn’t happen while the engine is running but rather while there is spring pressure up against the cam lobes which causes them to rotate if not locked into position with a special tool. When the mechanic goes to set the crank position and the cam lobe isn’t clocked appropriately you can get contact.

It happens. I would want a compression test, leakdown and dynamic balance test completed after to verify everything is ok. Some engines with variable intake and exhaust can’t be compression or leak down tested bc there is overlap with the piston at the bottom and the phasers unpressurized.


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Bhollier

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Well it looks like I may have to change my vote. Noticed this morning when I started my truck to warm it up it made the same grinding noise that all with cam phaser issues have described. Only last a couple of seconds but was definitely noticeable. 33k miles now. I don't plan on bringing it in to have it fixed, just going to RTD then swap the entire power plant for a V8 and be done with it.
 

rtmozingo

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Do you have the 8" Instrument Cluster? It has an option to view all readings...everything from oil pressure to charge air temperature in real time. That is where you will see the oil pressure change based on engine load. The main Instrument Cluster gauge will only show an average as to not cause alarm from varying pressures.

Does this apply to 17-18s? I can get the info via OBD but I wasn't aware of it on the dash...and I thought I combed through the menu pretty well.

What, in your opinion, is the most likely culprit leading to these failures? I was under the impression lack of oil flow to the phasers was causing damage to them. From what I understand from your post, it seems like it isn't so much lack of oil flow at startup (as is common belief) but more so starvation over time that ultimately leads to locking failure -> noise on startup. Am I understanding this correctly?

Thanks for taking the time to enlighten the rest of us. I find as interesting as I do pertinent to my truck.
 

FordTechOne

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So my 18' Raptor went to Ford on 9/2 with cam phaser noise. I was called on Friday the 13th to inform me they put everything back together and it was making a different noise. Went to dealership yesterday and was told that I have a bent valve in the head. Apparently one of the pistons hit the valve.

My question is if this could have been on the dealership after they replaced one of the cam phasers, could they have messed with the time and created this new issue?

Thanks!

That's the only way it can happen. They mistimed the engine upon reassembly and a valve hit a piston. Call the Ford customer relationship center; at that point I'd probably request a new engine assembly. It should all be at the dealership's expense; warranty doesn't cover misdiagnosis or improper repair.
 

FordTechOne

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Well it looks like I may have to change my vote. Noticed this morning when I started my truck to warm it up it made the same grinding noise that all with cam phaser issues have described. Only last a couple of seconds but was definitely noticeable. 33k miles now. I don't plan on bringing it in to have it fixed, just going to RTD then swap the entire power plant for a V8 and be done with it.

A good technician (most Ford Techs) certified in Specialty 32 (engine repair) can pull the timing cover, replace all 4 phasers, and have it back together within factory specs in less than a day. Even as a technician myself, the work some of these guys do is amazing. They lose money if they do it wrong or have a comeback; most have their specialty down to a science.
 

FordTechOne

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Does this apply to 17-18s? I can get the info via OBD but I wasn't aware of it on the dash...and I thought I combed through the menu pretty well.

What, in your opinion, is the most likely culprit leading to these failures? I was under the impression lack of oil flow to the phasers was causing damage to them. From what I understand from your post, it seems like it isn't so much lack of oil flow at startup (as is common belief) but more so starvation over time that ultimately leads to locking failure -> noise on startup. Am I understanding this correctly?

Thanks for taking the time to enlighten the rest of us. I find as interesting as I do pertinent to my truck.

It seems that the detailed instrumentation only applies to 2019 models like mine...sorry to cause confusion.

I haven't seen any oil starvation related issues on these engines unless they are literally run low on oil (there is a TSB for valve cover/PCV replacement for that issue). Per the TSB that Ford released, some cam phasers installed within the build dates listed had manufacturing issues, which is the reason for replacement. It's not a base engine issue at all. Even if the oil is low and doesn't reach the heads on startup, the phasers won't release from the locked position, so no noise will occur. Phaser noise is the result of faulty cam phaser units that don't properly return to the locked position during engine shutdown.
 
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