Anyone tow with their Gen 3 yet?

[K9 EXPERT]

How is the Raptor over weight? On the door sticker for legal payload is 1250ft lbs. As you said UTV weight is 2100lbs, and trailer is let's say even 1300lbs up from your 1100. 3400 total.

Raptor legal (unsafe) towing Capacity :8200lbs
Trailer Weight of above: 3400lbs.

10% tongue weight as you stated, 340lbs. Driver 250lbs. Cargo and misc (hitch and ball etc) weight, 250lbs, add an extra 100 in for fun, total payload 940 lbs. Call it 1000 even just to keep rounding up for safety!

So we are less than half rated towing capacity, and even rounding your numbers up by hundreds of pounds of payload, I am still 250lbs UNDER payload. On what planet is that illegal? Under by a huge margin in every single measure.

I've weighed my truck on a truck scale with trailer, all normal stuff I carry and a full tank of fuel in machine and truck (36 gallons in the truck...) @ a whopping 9670 lbs and GCWR is legally rated at 14,500lb... 4800lbs light of that measure as well...

EDIT: I just realized we're not even close to exceeding the last possible measure of safety, the Raptor has a maximum bumper pull weight WITHOUT a WDH of 5000lbs. We're 1600lbs shy of that one too.

It truly doesn’t matter if the the manufacturer indicates 8000 pound tow weight. The tongue weight of 340 is added to the total payload weight rating. Using the figures you provided….1250 pounds of payload capacity, 1000 pounds of cargo (payload) plus 340 pounds of tongue weight, puts the payload at 1340 pounds, which is 90 pounds over its payload rating. You must consider the payload when determining how much weight can be towed and therefore the tongue weight is critical. The Raptor engine can easily pull 8000 pounds, but that figure does not take in consideration the trucks payload rating. Another fact, air bags can mitigate the sag of a heavy trailer, but airbags do not increase payload capacity, which is determined by the weight the axels can safely carry. Unless you are involved in a major injury traffic collision, all is good, but if something bad occurred, the driver, depending on jurisdiction, is guilty of gross negligence. If you perform a quick google search you will find the answers. See attached.

 

[dfw62]

10% tongue weight as you stated, 340lbs. Driver 250lbs. Cargo and misc (hitch and ball etc) weight, 250lbs, add an extra 100 in for fun, total payload 940 lbs. Call it 1000 even just to keep rounding up for safety!

It truly doesn’t matter if the the manufacturer indicates 8000 pound tow weight. The tongue weight of 340 is added to the total payload weight rating. Using the figures you provided….1250 pounds of payload capacity, 1000 pounds of cargo (payload) plus 340 pounds of tongue weight, puts the payload at 1340 pounds, which is 90 pounds over its payload rating.

Take a breath Super Heroes. As I mentioned in an earlier post tow rating and payload are the most misunderstood items when it comes to our trucks. And yes the manufacturers do nothing to help clear this up as they always advertise the highest possible values for both regardless of your specific vehicle's options and equipment. However, the Ford online tool is very useful for understanding how these two items are tied together. When you use the tool as you enter higher amounts of passengers, cargo, and accessories the tow rating drops accordingly. The maximum trailer tongue weight is shown along with the maximum trailer weight. I highly recommend trying this out. It is vehicle specific by VIN.

McCarthy - Go easy on K9 EXPERT as he's concerned with a very valid problem which is way too many overloaded trucks on our highways and so many thinking that air bags increase payload.

K9 EXPERT - Go easy on McCarthy as he's trying to help with your understanding of how payload and tow rating are tied to each other. In his example above he has calculated the total payload as 340 (tongue) + 250 (driver) + 250 (cargo and misc) + 100 (extra) = 940 which he rounds up to 1000. This is below the 1250 payload rating he is using for the truck. In his example the payload less the tongue weight is 660 (1000 - 340 = 660). In your response you have called this 660 to be 1000.

The bottom line is that a Gen 3 Raptor with a typical payload rating of around 1200# can be an awesome tow vehicle for someone with a relatively low combined weight of passengers and cargo (500 pound range) and a trailer around 6000# with a tongue weight in the range of 600# (resulting in a total payload of around 1100#). With a WD hitch (required over 500# tongue weight) this results in very minor sag. If one wants to eliminate the sag and stiffen up the rear the Air Lift 1000 bags work fantastic and are relatively low cost and easy to install. Note air bags are not increasing the payload rating just eliminating the sag and firming up the suspension.

As for an 8200# trailer (820# tongue) this is well within the Gen 3 Raptor's on paper capabilities (assuming 1200# payload rating) if a WD hitch is used and passengers and cargo are 380# or less. However, even though completely legal the amount of sag will make the truck look overloaded. Only having 380# of passengers and cargo is not real world for most and the sag looks ridiculous with an 820# tongue weight so the 8200# tow rating is not real world IMO. I actually sold my 8000# camper when I bought my Gen 3 Raptor and replaced it with a 5500# camper knowing the Raptor was not really meant to tow 8000# in the real world. I absolutely love the Raptor as my new tow vehicle with a reasonable weight trailer.

 

[K9 EXPERT]

The Ford tow calculator results does not include the weight of the trailer. Attached is the result of my 2021 37 with 300 pounds of passengers, 160 pounds of dogs, 220 pounds of Smart cap, 230 pound of gun vault and 100 pounds of luggage. when I place a 2500 pound UTV on a 1100 pound trailer, I am too close to the limit for MY COMFORT.

 

[dfw62]

The Ford tow calculator results does not include the weight of the trailer. Attached is the result of my 2021 37 with 300 pounds of passengers, 160 pounds of dogs, 220 pounds of Smart cap, 230 pound of gun vault and 100 pounds of luggage. when I place a 2500 pound UTV on a 1100 pound trailer, I am too close to the limit for MY COMFORT.

I hear what you're saying K9 EXPERT. With my set up I am right at the limits. The Gen 3 Raptor even at the rated limits feels very solid. Since I assume you have your Raptor already set up as described and the trailer and UTV will be the same whether you tow with the Raptor or a different truck I'd suggest you try towing the trailer and UTV with the Raptor with the least amount of cargo possible. If it feels good to you, gradually add cargo to determine if at some point it doesn't feel safe. As you add cargo you will get sag but don't worry about that for your test. Actually, I'd expect you have sag without the trailer to begin with and the trailer may not add that much more sag. If you find the Raptor feels solid with all cargo plus the UTV and trailer you would have the option of adding the Air Lift 1000 bags to eliminate the sag. Another benefit of the bags is that they will firm up the rear suspension a bit. If you found the Raptor to feel solid, another thing I'd recommend is taking the fully loaded truck and trailer combo to a CAT Scale to verify that you are within all the ratings (GCVWR, GVWR, front GAWR, rear GAWR).

That's just my 2 cents. If towing close to the limits is out of your comfort zone I fully respect that.

I went from a Diesel Ford Excursion (1400# payload, 11000# tow rating) with an 8000# camper to my Raptor (1214# payload, 8200# tow rating) with a 5500# camper and find the Raptor/camper combo actually feels more stable than the Excursion/camper combo was. Plus unloaded the Raptor rides so much better.

 

[RogueClimber]

I believe what we have here is a bit of cognitive dissonance

Pick up Trucks were made to haul sh*t, to tow sh*t, to be a dang work vehicle

Then Ford made the Raptor -- A play truck, a race through the desert laughing your head off truck, an oh my gawd this truck is fu**ing fun truck. And on top of that the da*n truck is amazing around town, the ride is smooth, the interior is comfortable, it fits (barely) in the Starbucks drive through...

But the Raptor ain't a work truck

Folks that are buying the Raptor to be a truck for towing or to be a traditional work truck/hauler will be disappointed in the towing etc, but man you'll still have fun driving it.

If you need serious work/tow capability, you'll either have to compromise that requirement with the Raptor or just buy a "true" truck

 

[Ox3721]

Don’t forget to factor in the weight of fuel when calculating payload. It’s about 216 lbs for a full tank.

 

[K9 EXPERT]

I believe what we have here is a bit of cognitive dissonance

Pick up Trucks were made to haul sh*t, to tow sh*t, to be a dang work vehicle

Then Ford made the Raptor -- A play truck, a race through the desert laughing your head off truck, an oh my gawd this truck is fu**ing fun truck. And on top of that the da*n truck is amazing around town, the ride is smooth, the interior is comfortable, it fits (barely) in the Starbucks drive through...

But the Raptor ain't a work truck

Folks that are buying the Raptor to be a truck for towing or to be a traditional work truck/hauler will be disappointed in the towing etc, but man you'll still have fun driving it.

If you need serious work/tow capability, you'll either have to compromise that requirement with the Raptor or just buy a "true" truck

Unfortunately you are correct, but some people like me thought a truck is a truck and the Raptor truck is a truck that is fun. Plus, I never thought I would tow anything. The bad part is, I have two Raptors, a 2019 and 2021. I will trade one in for a real truck. Just a side note, when shopping around for a real truck I went to three dealers and every sale person told me every Ford truck can tow AND carry its full payload. Maybe that’s the reason they sale cars!

 

[K9 EXPERT]

Don’t forget to factor in the weight of fuel when calculating payload. It’s about 216 lbs for a full tank.

Correct and in my case, extra gas for the UTV, which has a ten gallon take itsel, an ice chest to keep 40 pounds of dog food cold and another large ice chest for food and booze. They are called traffic accidents for a reason, all are accidents

Don’t forget to factor in the weight of fuel when calculating payload. It’s about 216 lbs for a full tank.

 

[Littlefx4]

I will trade one in for a real truck.

250 Tremor with Carli setup perhaps…

 

[dfw62]

Don’t forget to factor in the weight of fuel when calculating payload. It’s about 216 lbs for a full tank.

The payload rating on the yellow sticker in the door jamb includes all operating fluids (including a full tank of gas) and all factory installed options. It does not include passengers, cargo, and aftermarket equipment.

I believe what we have here is a bit of cognitive dissonance

Pick up Trucks were made to haul sh*t, to tow sh*t, to be a dang work vehicle

Then Ford made the Raptor -- A play truck, a race through the desert laughing your head off truck, an oh my gawd this truck is fu**ing fun truck. And on top of that the da*n truck is amazing around town, the ride is smooth, the interior is comfortable, it fits (barely) in the Starbucks drive through...

But the Raptor ain't a work truck

Folks that are buying the Raptor to be a truck for towing or to be a traditional work truck/hauler will be disappointed in the towing etc, but man you'll still have fun driving it.

If you need serious work/tow capability, you'll either have to compromise that requirement with the Raptor or just buy a "true" truck

I couldn't agree more that the Raptor is a fun truck but it can do some work. As long as you are willing to accept how much work it can do and size your trailer accordingly I don't think you'll be disappointed with it as a tow vehicle. I had to downsize my camper to have a Raptor and do not regret that compromise one bit. Having a Raptor for fun and a more heavy duty truck to tow was not an option for me but even if it was after setting up camp I'd rather explore in a Raptor than a heavy duty truck.