Anyone tow with their Gen 3 yet?

[blwn]

I’m not a Ford guru by any stretch, however it is my understanding that the max tow package has slightly different axle ratios than the Raptor, but I don’t know what an axle ratio even means. I have also read and been told that the max tow package also includes everything in the regular tow package, including an upgraded hitch. About 10 years ago, due to a shooting incident, I was temporarily removed from narcotics and placed inside an LE scale facility, the type that is found on an interstate highway. My job was just to sit around while the investigation concluded. During the time it was slow or over staffed, scale whales (cops) were assigned to stop vehicles pulling trailers that sagged. They were brought back to the scale and received what I was told to be a very expensive over weight ticket. Occasionally they were put out of service and not allowed to continue their journey until they dropped weight from their load. Often time a drug dog sniffed the vehicle as well and a tons of arrests were completed. The moral of the story is, a trailer that sags provides LE probable cause to stop the vehicle and the same laws that apply to big rigs, apply to all vehicles. Lastly, it is also silly to market a vehicle by indicating it can tow 8200 pounds, when in fact, it cannot do it legally. Therefore, if you are correct about the Raptor having everything in the Max Tow package, but it is silly to market it as such because the Raptor can’t do it, why does ford market other F 150’s as a towing beast, when they are not? It just doesn’t make sense to me, which doesn’t mean it’s not true. There must be at least one piece of equipment or ratio that is missing?

I totally agree with you. Sagging could get you pulled over by a LEO and then it's on you to prove you're not overloaded. I think it's also some of the reason people install air bags or other aids even though it doesn't increase payload capacity on paper.

Ford marketing is just like anything else, it's always best case scenario. The Raptor tow rating is 8200lbs, so 820lb of tongue weight minus 100lbs for a WDH that is needed for anything over 500lbs tongue weight. That leaves you with about 200+/- lbs for the driver and gear. Is it possible? Absolutely. Is it realistic for most? No.

Compare that with your Lariat. I'm not sure if it's rated for 14000lbs, but that's 1400 in tongue weight right off the bat. Another 100 for WDH and that leaves 200 or so lbs for passengers and gear? I'd never tow that much with a 1/2 ton anyway, but that's marketing for you. There are LOTS of people that buy a truck based on that marketing only to be disappointed they can't legally pull their huge new camper.

 

[K9 EXPERT]

As you previously wrote, a WDH and/or airbags do not increase the payload capacity. However you never answered my question, what exactly does the Raptor have that makes you think it is equipped with the max tow package? Provide a link, or better yet, a side by side comparison, via screen shot??? There are a lot of dumb cops, but there are many more not so dumb. Example, today I went to pay for the UTV I ordered. In the parking lot there was a Ford Explorer hooked to a trailer that had two side by sides on it. The trailer barely sagged, if at all. A cop doesn’t need to be a rocket scientist to know the explorer was well past its load capacity. Upon closer examination, the Explorer had a WDH, which does not make it legal. Traffic was not my forte, but a term LE uses is, “based on my training and experience”, which will in 98% of cases, establish probable cause. Bottom line, my posts were never intended to scare people, the intention is to educate people, so that they can make an informed decision. Ford IMO should be liable because of marketing, but my opinion doesn’t matter, just like your opinion regarding a Raptor can tow 5000 pounds does not matter. Ford can and does have a legal team as well as lobbyists for which I cannot compete. It is up to the driver to use common sense and complete due diligence.

 

[blwn]

As you previously wrote, a WDH and/or airbags do not increase the payload capacity. However you never answered my question, what exactly does the Raptor have that makes you think it is equipped with the max tow package? Provide a link, or better yet, a side by side comparison, via screen shot??? There are a lot of dumb cops, but there are many more not so dumb. Example, today I went to pay for the UTV I ordered. In the parking lot there was a Ford Explorer hooked to a trailer that had two side by sides on it. The trailer barely sagged, if at all. A cop doesn’t need to be a rocket scientist to know the explorer was well past its load capacity. Upon closer examination, the Explorer had a WDH, which does not make it legal. Traffic was not my forte, but a term LE uses is, “based on my training and experience”, which will in 98% of cases, establish probable cause. Bottom line, my posts were never intended to scare people, the intention is to educate people, so that they can make an informed decision. Ford IMO should be liable because of marketing, but my opinion doesn’t matter, just like your opinion regarding a Raptor can tow 5000 pounds does not matter. Ford can and does have a legal team as well as lobbyists for which I cannot compete. It is up to the driver to use common sense and complete due diligence.

A WDH hitch is required for anything over 500lb tongue weight according to the Ford hitch sticker. It's not doing anything to increase payload, it actually takes away from it.

I'm not sure how else I can answer your question. I already included the list of things that is included with the Max Tow package a page ago. It's an Electronic Locking rear axle which doesn't do anything to improve towing. The axle ratio in the Raptor is already better than the two in the package. The 7 pin wiring harness, Pro Trailer assist and Integrated Brake Controller are already included. Same with the 36 gallon tank. The Raptor also already has the upgraded rear bumper and if anything has a stronger frame so again I'm not sure what out of those things the Raptor is missing?

A Ford Explorer hooked to a trailer with two side by sides may or may not be overloaded. You would need to know it's limits. A quick google says it is rated up to 5600lbs towing. Two side by sides and a trailer all depending on size could be well under that. Now if you saw 4 adults jump in it and the back was loaded with gear that is a different story.

Agreed, Ford and others market things, but it's ultimately up to the driver to use common sense. Like I said before I'm glad you were willing to learn about towing properly and under the limits of your vehicle instead of just hooking up a trailer because Ford says 8000lbs!

 

[K9 EXPERT]

A WDH hitch is required for anything over 500lb tongue weight according to the Ford hitch sticker. It's not doing anything to increase payload, it actually takes away from it.

I'm not sure how else I can answer your question. I already included the list of things that is included with the Max Tow package a page ago. It's an Electronic Locking rear axle which doesn't do anything to improve towing. The axle ratio in the Raptor is already better than the two in the package. The 7 pin wiring harness, Pro Trailer assist and Integrated Brake Controller are already included. Same with the 36 gallon tank. The Raptor also already has the upgraded rear bumper and if anything has a stronger frame so again I'm not sure what out of those things the Raptor is missing?

A Ford Explorer hooked to a trailer with two side by sides may or may not be overloaded. You would need to know it's limits. A quick google says it is rated up to 5600lbs towing. Two side by sides and a trailer all depending on size could be well under that. Now if you saw 4 adults jump in it and the back was loaded with gear that is a different story.

Agreed, Ford and others market things, but it's ultimately up to the driver to use common sense. Like I said before I'm glad you were willing to learn about towing properly and under the limits of your vehicle instead of just hooking up a trailer because Ford says 8000lbs!

Just take a screen shot of everything that comes standard with the max package, then another screen shot of fords website citing Raptor specs. Post both side by side. Now you say Raptors axle ratios are better for towing, according to whom? I have attached many links that regarding required towing and payload capacity. I ask you to attach something , other than your opinion, that the Raptor is equipped with identical parts the max package contains. I looked and could not find anything other that brain dead YouTubers towing stuff. IMHO publications like motor trend is not unbiased as they receive advertising funds from Ford.After this thread, everyone should know Fords tow ratings are similar to the corn Pop story, and had I taken a pic of the explorer, you would even agree it was overloaded. During this thread I learned a lot about trailer/payload weight thresholds. I also learned the car and trailer salespeople know nothing about it. Probably because of my former job which required me to see, smell and touch people mangled from collisions, I am more careful than most. I don’t want a cop to knock on a family’s door and provide a death notification because I drove an overloaded vehicle. We all should learn from life experiences!

 

[dfw62]

Now you say Raptors axle ratios are better for towing, according to whom?

The higher the rear axle ratio is numerically the better for towing. Max tow package highest ratio is 3.73, Raptor has 4.11. However, Raptor higher gear ratio is mainly to offset the effect of the larger diameter tires so it doesn't feel slow off the line. When the larger diameter Raptor tires are factored in the effective rear axle ratio as compared to a regular F150 with 3.73 gears is pretty close. Thus, from a rear axle ratio perspective the Raptor and Max Tow Package F150 are essentially the same.

 

[EricM]

As you go up numerically, the higher ratios have weaker pinion gears- they are just physically smaller. Therefore a 3.55 pinion gear can be made substantially stronger than a 4.10 pinion gear and even though they may have the same effective gear ratio, you are better off with smaller tires and lower gears (non Raptor) versus larger tires and higher gearing (Raptor).

If you didn't know, at some point the volume of air in the tire becomes a limiting factor in calucalting factory tow ratings, which is one reason semis have such huge tires- but that's *way* down the towing rabbit hole.

 

[blwn]

Just take a screen shot of everything that comes standard with the max package, then another screen shot of fords website citing Raptor specs. Post both side by side. Now you say Raptors axle ratios are better for towing, according to whom? I have attached many links that regarding required towing and payload capacity. I ask you to attach something , other than your opinion, that the Raptor is equipped with identical parts the max package contains. I looked and could not find anything other that brain dead YouTubers towing stuff. IMHO publications like motor trend is not unbiased as they receive advertising funds from Ford.After this thread, everyone should know Fords tow ratings are similar to the corn Pop story, and had I taken a pic of the explorer, you would even agree it was overloaded. During this thread I learned a lot about trailer/payload weight thresholds. I also learned the car and trailer salespeople know nothing about it. Probably because of my former job which required me to see, smell and touch people mangled from collisions, I am more careful than most. I don’t want a cop to knock on a family’s door and provide a death notification because I drove an overloaded vehicle. We all should learn from life experiences!

Best I can do is this from the F150 Towing Information that Ford publishes. 53C is the Max Towing package. I don't think ford is very accurate though as we all know the Pro Trailer Backup Assist and Trailer Brake Controller are on the Raptor even though they're not marked, so I have no reason to doubt the Upgraded Rear Bumper is standard as well. Also you would think the Aux Auto Trans Oil Cooler and Radiator Cooler would be part of the Max Tow Package but they don't show as included.


I recommend reading this thoroughly:

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/cpo/pdf/2023_Ford_F-150_Towing_Info_Dec16.pdf

Regardless of having the Max Tow package or not, you're still limited on payload capacity on your Lariat just like you are on the Raptor. In this case though it takes you from being 215lbs overweight to having 85lbs spare in your situation. That's all that matters

 

[K9 EXPERT]

As you go up numerically, the higher ratios have weaker pinion gears- they are just physically smaller. Therefore a 3.55 pinion gear can be made substantially stronger than a 4.10 pinion gear and even though they may have the same effective gear ratio, you are better off with smaller tires and lower gears (non Raptor) versus larger tires and higher gearing (Raptor).

If you didn't know, at some point the volume of air in the tire becomes a limiting factor in calucalting factory tow ratings, which is one reason semis have such huge tires- but that's *way* down the towing rabbit hole.

When you said substantially stronger, do you mean the gear is thicker and physically stronger, it can turn more forcefully, or both.? Why are smaller tires better than larger tires? I don’t understand your example using a semi, as you said, they have huge tires, so I would think big tires are best? This benign subject has become very interesting to me!

 

[K9 EXPERT]

Best I can do is this from the F150 Towing Information that Ford publishes. 53C is the Max Towing package. I don't think ford is very accurate though as we all know the Pro Trailer Backup Assist and Trailer Brake Controller are on the Raptor even though they're not marked, so I have no reason to doubt the Upgraded Rear Bumper is standard as well. Also you would think the Aux Auto Trans Oil Cooler and Radiator Cooler would be part of the Max Tow Package but they don't show as included.

View attachment 423969
I recommend reading this thoroughly:

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/cpo/pdf/2023_Ford_F-150_Towing_Info_Dec16.pdf

Regardless of having the Max Tow package or not, you're still limited on payload capacity on your Lariat just like you are on the Raptor. In this case though it takes you from being 215lbs overweight to having 85lbs spare in your situation. That's all that matters

I have read that several times during the past few days, but I thought you and I agreed Ford marketing is deceitful at best. Trust me, I had no plan to buy another truck, however, the more I read, the more I did the math and the conversation with a collision reconstruction expert, I saw no other option. I definitely feel more relaxed being underweight than over…..even if it just 2 pounds! I have a black cloud that follows me and have learned through experience, If it’s going as planned, it’s an ambush. In addition, now that I am not LE, I want to avoid them at all costs. I know a minor infraction can quickly turn into a big deal super fast. I also know once a collision occurs, there is no undoing it, the evidence cannot be changed. That little black box will contain just about everything, including if the truck exceeded its payload. To add insult to injury, most auto insurance policies contain a clause that stipulates the driver and vehicle is not covered if negligence occurred.

 

[Nex]

When you said substantially stronger, do you mean the gear is thicker and physically stronger, it can turn more forcefully, or both.? Why are smaller tires better than larger tires? I don’t understand your example using a semi, as you said, they have huge tires, so I would think big tires are best? This benign subject has become very interesting to me!

Semis have smaller sidewalls and larger wheels (19.5"). Also stiffer (giggity) sidewalls.