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Another point, harnesses without a neck restraint is definitely a bad idea. Sorry guys, not trying to shit on this thread. But some of these things can be dangerous. Harnesses are designed so your body doesn't move. Your neck will snap forward on an impact if you don't have a restraint to keep it from moving forward as well.
Right but most neck restraints mount universal to many diff belt harnesses. The way it is mounted doesn't effect that? They both can have neck restraints that provide the same protection. Most people just wear neck collar style ones anyways. Has no impact on harness
There's a few things, but the main difference is the difference in zest belt vs harness design. Seat belts allow for movement, that doesn't seem good, but it allows your body to move away from crushes and other things. Harness are design to keep your from moving at all. If you roll over, your harness is gonna keep you in place even if the roof is crushing down on you.
There's also certain geometry that harnesses are supposed to be at, the stock rear mount may or may not be in that. There are some more experience and knowledgeable than I in this field. I just want people to know as much as they can about it and make their own decisions. I know Trey is knowledgeable here, hopefully he will chime in as well.
---------- Post added 02-23-2014 at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was 02-22-2014 at 11:59 PM ----------
Right but most neck restraints mount universal to many diff belt harnesses. The way it is mounted doesn't effect that? They both can have neck restraints that provide the same protection. Most people just wear neck collar style ones anyways. Has no impact on harness
Correct, I didn't mean for that to piggy back on to my post about harnesses with out cage. Sorry it read that way. It was just another point I thought of because I never see anyone running restraints at these events, including the ones running harnesses.
"The shoulder harness shall be mounted behind the driver and
supported above a line drawn downward from the shoulder point
at an angle of 20 degrees with the horizontal."
I had race seats and 6-points(used factoy mount points and a bar that went from both B-pillars and the floor) in my Evo and I don't know that I'd want a crotch strap in the truck for bouncing offroading(since I don't push it that hard), but, I wouldn't want a cheap 4-point that you would submarine under either.
The car was to the point where a cage should have been added, my truck probably never will be.
You absolutely cannot correctly mount a 5/6 point belt with the factory seats, as there is no way to run the crotch strap(s) through the seat. There's also no windows for the shoulder straps.
There's this option in a 4-point from Schroth designed to prevent submarining under the belt:
The inboard shoulder strap is designed to give to prevent submarining under the belts.
I'm not willing to give up my comfy heated/cooled/power seats for buckets and proper belts. Unless, at some point in the future the truck ends up a caged toy.
You shouldn't use the back seat for people if you have a harness bar installed, as they will break their face on it in an accident.
I'd maybe look at something like this instead, made to lock the 3-points in position to better secure you in the seat. http://www.cg-lock.com/index.html
A friend crashed his Evo on a track this summer(brake failure) and with the factory belts, his head touched the passenger side door(wearing a helmet). There's in-car GoPro video of this, he was doing ~58mph at impact.
3-points are fine on a frontal impact, sides or rolling, a harness will better keep you where you belong, but, you should have a cage at that point too.
I had race seats and 6-points(used factoy mount points and a bar that went from both B-pillars and the floor) in my Evo and I don't know that I'd want a crotch strap in the truck for bouncing offroading(since I don't push it that hard), but, I wouldn't want a cheap 4-point that you would submarine under either.
The car was to the point where a cage should have been added, my truck probably never will be.
You absolutely cannot correctly mount a 5/6 point belt with the factory seats, as there is no way to run the crotch strap(s) through the seat.
There's this option in a 4-point from Schroth designed to prevent submarining under the belt:
The inboard shoulder strap is designed to give to prevent submarining under the belts.
I'm not willing to give up my comfy heated/cooled/power seats for buckets and proper belts. Unless, at some point in the future the truck ends up a caged toy.
I would maybe consider the schroth belts with a harness bar that was removable for when not at events. You shouldn't use the back seat for people if you have a harness bar installed, as they will break their face on it in an accident.
A friend crashed his Evo on a track this summer(brake failure) and with the factory belts, his head touched the passenger side door(wearing a helmet). There's in-car GoPro video of this, he was doing ~58mph at impact.
3-points are fine on a frontal impact, sides or rolling, a harness will better keep you where you belong.
I have been researching this question myself for several weeks. What I have learned is...
- Long runs of webbing are very questionable because webbing is designed to stretch. The longer the webbing, the more stretch when an extreme load is applied. Some stretch is good - it keeps the safety equipment from breaking you up or cutting you in half. (Just ask a rock climber.) But too much stretch, particularly at peak loads in a confined space, is dangerous.
- The ideal angle of the shoulder restraints is 20 degrees downward to the rear. It is difficult to achieve that optimum angle except by purposeful design. And that will almost certainly involve steel hardware specifically designed for the application.
- An anti-submarine crotch strap must go down through a purpose built seat and angle backwards toward the rear of the truck. A crotch strap must never be installed so that it merely loops over the front edge of a stock seat. This is worse than no anti-submarine strap at all because it actually makes submarining under the lap belt more likely.
As a consequence of my research I have concluded that I can be content with the factory 3-point belt system, or I can invest in a race seat and a roll cage or other hardware necessary to properly install safety harnesses in a way that actually enhances safety.
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