4-Link the Rear

[MarkT]

Yes... it's all physics... the energy of a crash is greatly dissipated by the frame bending/collapsing. It's really a function of time. Decelerating the force of the impact over even a few extra fractions of a second greatly reduces the g-forces the occupants of the vehicle experience in an accident.

People are surviving accidents... even walking away from accidents without a scratch... that not that many years ago would have been fatal. My Dad used to get a magazine from the CHP back in the '60s and early '70s that showed the results of accident investigations. The photos were in black and white but they were still pretty graphic. I still remember pics of dead people with no shoes... some with no apparent injuries still seat belted into the car! The force of the accident was high enough to remove their shoes! And it seemed the rule of thumb was if your shoes came off from the deceleration, you died. With the new "crumple zones" and air bags designed to reduce the force experienced in an accident by decelerating your body over a few extra fractions of a second, many lives are saved.

Back to the Raptor... Let's just say you beef up the frame above the axle so it can't bend when you bottom out the suspension hard. My guess is that the next thing to be destroyed by bottoming out hard would be the bump stops. Beef those up and then you'd start bending axle housings!

Answer is to either stop grossly exceeding the limits of the stock suspension OR increase travel, use progressive spring rates, progressive bump stops, or whatever it takes to stop bottoming out the suspension at the speeds/impacts you want to take. The goal is to have the suspension absorb the impact over time so the impact force when you do bottom out is low enough to stop bending/breaking parts... You'd probably be better off building a truck from scratch and/or you'll probably be doubling the cost of the Raptor.

Probably the biggest "flaw" in the design is that Ford made a truck that handles off road so well that some people think they can do anything with it. It's a very capable truck, but it's not a trophy truck or full-on desert racer!

Yes... sometimes things sneak up on you like the whoops you don't see in time... or the tree that jumps out in front of you 'cause you took a blind corner a little too fast. Those are simply accidents. The frame might bend hitting those whoops too hard just like the fender would be destroyed if you sideswipe a tree (or a jeep, or a rock) you couldn't avoid. I don't blame the truck when those things happen.

 

[A.I.I.Raciing]

Back to the Raptor... Let's just say you beef up the frame above the axle so it can't bend when you bottom out the suspension hard. My guess is that the next thing to be destroyed by bottoming out hard would be the bump stops. Beef those up and then you'd start bending axle housings!

Answer is to either stop grossly exceeding the limits of the stock suspension OR increase travel, use progressive spring rates, progressive bump stops, or whatever it takes to stop bottoming out the suspension at the speeds/impacts you want to take. The goal is to have the suspension absorb the impact over time so the impact force when you do bottom out is low enough to stop bending/breaking parts... You'd probably be better off building a truck from scratch and/or you'll probably be doubling the cost of the Raptor.

Instead of going through all this BS, just set up the suspension correctly and you may not have this problem. This would mean revalving the shocks for your driving style, not just an off the shelf valve job.
Down side is you likely won't have your S-class ride on the street, but you won't be bending frames on fire roads anymore

 

[SVTRay]

Interesting stuff, reminds me a little of street cars. You generally reach a point were your road warrior is no longer streetable.

 

[MagicMtnDan]

Yes... it's all physics... the energy of a crash is greatly dissipated by the frame bending/collapsing. It's really a function of time. Decelerating the force of the impact over even a few extra fractions of a second greatly reduces the g-forces the occupants of the vehicle experience in an accident.

People are surviving accidents... even walking away from accidents without a scratch... that not that many years ago would have been fatal. My Dad used to get a magazine from the CHP back in the '60s and early '70s that showed the results of accident investigations. The photos were in black and white but they were still pretty graphic. I still remember pics of dead people with no shoes... some with no apparent injuries still seat belted into the car! The force of the accident was high enough to remove their shoes! And it seemed the rule of thumb was if your shoes came off from the deceleration, you died. With the new "crumple zones" and air bags designed to reduce the force experienced in an accident by decelerating your body over a few extra fractions of a second, many lives are saved.

Back to the Raptor... Let's just say you beef up the frame above the axle so it can't bend when you bottom out the suspension hard. My guess is that the next thing to be destroyed by bottoming out hard would be the bump stops. Beef those up and then you'd start bending axle housings!

Answer is to either stop grossly exceeding the limits of the stock suspension OR increase travel, use progressive spring rates, progressive bump stops, or whatever it takes to stop bottoming out the suspension at the speeds/impacts you want to take. The goal is to have the suspension absorb the impact over time so the impact force when you do bottom out is low enough to stop bending/breaking parts... You'd probably be better off building a truck from scratch and/or you'll probably be doubling the cost of the Raptor.

Probably the biggest "flaw" in the design is that Ford made a truck that handles off road so well that some people think they can do anything with it. It's a very capable truck, but it's not a trophy truck or full-on desert racer!

Yes... sometimes things sneak up on you like the whoops you don't see in time... or the tree that jumps out in front of you 'cause you took a blind corner a little too fast. Those are simply accidents. The frame might bend hitting those whoops too hard just like the fender would be destroyed if you sideswipe a tree (or a jeep, or a rock) you couldn't avoid. I don't blame the truck when those things happen.

Post of the year IMO

 

[MarkT]

Instead of going through all this BS, just set up the suspension correctly and you may not have this problem. This would mean revalving the shocks for your driving style, not just an off the shelf valve job.
Down side is you likely won't have your S-class ride on the street, but you won't be bending frames on fire roads anymore

Back in my off-road racing days, I spent countless hours re-valving Fox shocks to get things dialed in. I've also run thousands of miles in my Raptor, many of them high speed, on the countless roads out here in the desert. That said, I respectfully disagree. Not with the concept- but that the Raptor needs shock work to go fast on "fireroads".

It takes a REALLY hard hit to do what these guys are doing to their frames. Try to fix that with "just" the shocks and in my opinion you'll be blowing shocks, bending shock shafts, and/or bending shock mounts (in the rear). Not to mention the other drawbacks to ride and handling...

Install some higher rate springs (preferably progressive rate) and dial the shocks in to match and you'd be much better able to jump the truck without bottoming hard. Except now it's going to suck on the small bumps and probably won't handle too good. The only way you're going to be able to drive it like a trophy truck is to build it into a trophy truck... But that's just my opinion based on my experience... ymmv.

 

[MagicMtnDan]

I respectfully disagree. Not with the concept- but that the Raptor needs shock work to go fast on "fireroads".

It takes a REALLY hard hit to do what these guys are doing to their frames.

You're firing on all cylinders these days Mark - great point(s)!

This is what has me so fired up about the crybaby whiner ***** on the other forum making a huge issue about Ford's frame "design flaw".

Those of us who have offroaded our Raptors have put them through a lot and have not seen the kind of damage that 10 out of 14 Raptors saw on the recent run. We know what the Raptor is capable and we've all excitedly shared out feelings about how awesome these trucks are after having run the desert washes and terrain for a day.

The Raptor is more truck, by far, than any other manufacturer offers. It's designed to be able to do more than most any owner will want it to. And for those who find it lacking there's always the aftermarket, big-bucks option.

 

[GRT4DRT]

Answer is to either stop grossly exceeding the limits of the stock suspension OR increase travel, use progressive spring rates, progressive bump stops, or whatever it takes to stop bottoming out the suspension at the speeds/impacts you want to take. The goal is to have the suspension absorb the impact over time so the impact force when you do bottom out is low enough to stop bending/breaking parts... You'd probably be better off building a truck from scratch and/or you'll probably be doubling the cost of the Raptor.

Probably the biggest "flaw" in the design is that Ford made a truck that handles off road so well that some people think they can do anything with it. It's a very capable truck, but it's not a trophy truck or full-on desert racer!

Yes... sometimes things sneak up on you like the whoops you don't see in time... or the tree that jumps out in front of you 'cause you took a blind corner a little too fast. Those are simply accidents. The frame might bend hitting those whoops too hard just like the fender would be destroyed if you sideswipe a tree (or a jeep, or a rock) you couldn't avoid. I don't blame the truck when those things happen.

Dude, you weren't there, you don't know, you'll never know. PERIOD.

****

 

[The Tank]

Dude, you weren't there, you don't know, you'll never know. PERIOD.

****

WTF is your problem? You get mad at me for saying that there is nothing wrong with the frame and get mad at Mark because he said the bent frame is caused by people overdriving the truck.

 

[BigJ]

Dude, you weren't there, you don't know, you'll never know. PERIOD.

****

I'm glad you're here and participating... but that crap stops now. We're here to discuss the issue, not flame eachother. If you disagree, cool! Explain why by discussing the issue(s) involved. Not by attacking the member raising them. This isn't that sort of forum.

Last and only warning.

 

[MagicMtnDan]

Dude, you weren't there, you don't know, you'll never know. PERIOD.

****

We didn't need to be there because we have a number of members who were there -- and you know that.



Furthermore we've driven our Raptors offroad a LOT and we KNOW what the truck is capable of.

Stick around and we can discuss this.